This Is Getting Out Of Hand.......

[ToraToraTora]

https://www.express.co.uk/showbiz/tv-radio/1395811/Piers-Morgan-NHS-midwives-transgender-chestfeeding-breastfeeding-GMB-video
Mother = Birthing parent! Breast feeding = Chest feeding! For gawds sake how far are we expected to go to accommodate these people?

[pixie374]

Untitled, if you are right, and the only difference is hormones.... it makes sense to assume its fairly 50/50, and that a woman taking testosterone, would be just as likely to beat male competitors.
Why has that not happened?
Why is it only one way, if people are actually fairly assessed?

[Untitled]

There aren't very many transgendered people pixie and even fewer of those want anything to do with sports... you can find transgender men who qualify for elite divisions and do well in sporting competitions against men. My few minutes of curious googling hasn't found any first-prizers (which is what you asked) but I might be wrong.

[Untitled]

I didn't say the only difference was hormones... I said I trusted the judgement of Eric Vilain that hormone treatment suitably levels the field to a degree where trans women can validly compete.

[New Judge]

//If you did say that then you'd be a bit of a rubbish parent wouldn't you...//

No I wouldn’t. I’d be irresponsible if I didn’t warn her of the disappointment she would be likely to face. There is no doubt that men (who have “self identified” as women) have begun to participate in all levels of women’s sport of many kinds. It will become widespread without the sort of controls mentioned by Mr Vilain. I don’t know how he arrives at his conclusion that “Male to female transsexuals have significantly less muscle strength and bone density, and higher fat mass, than males.” It may apply to the few that he’s examined but it cannot be a general assumption.

In any case, it doesn’t matter. Whether they do or don’t is not the issue as far as this question goes. It is about the language used when dealing with women and childbirth and the ridiculous amount of resources being put into documenting and enforcing it.

[pixie374]

Fair enough. I don't- because I don't believe the only difference is hormones. Or that humans can change sex. Do you?

[pixie374]

^ to untitled

[New Judge]

//There aren't very many transgendered people...//

You're quite right - there are not. But the amount of resources being devoted to making sure they are not upset is ridiculously disproportionate to those numbers.

[pixie374]

It's the only thing they test, untitled, other than drugs. They don't bother with a dna test to really see.

[pixie374]

Nj //Male to female transsexuals have significantly less muscle strength and bone density, and higher fat mass, than males.//
That quite likely is true, for many. But doesn't compare with females. They are totally different, there is not a scale between one and another.

[Untitled]

How would a dna test help? :/

I don't believe hormones are the only differences between men and women either... but even so Vilain says hormone treatment and surgery is sufficient to prevent an unfair degree of advantage even if non-hormonal differences remain. I trust the man's qualifications.

[pixie374]

You shouldn't. A DNA test helps, because it gives you the person's sex. Regardless of wishes, just as a race doesn't depend on the person wishing to win.
If you believe hormones are the only difference, your posts make sense. You know they aren't, and yet you are happy for that to be the measure?

[New Judge]

//That quite likely is true, for many. But doesn't compare with females. They are totally different, there is not a scale between one and another.//

Quite true, pixie. To compare a man who fancies a stint as a woman to a woman is not very helpful.

[pixie374]

Thanks nj xx I'm still interested in untitled proof, that giving male hormones to females, has the same effect. Why are they also no beating men in sports?

[Fatalbertfixer]

Stop the world,i want to get off.

[Peter Pedant]

// I'm sure someone dreams up this crap for a reaction by TTT//

o god a perfect day - TTT screaming at Piers Moron

erm - you arent thinking of -- - er chest feeding are you T ?

[Togo]

Ay up ... our very own gobbledegook generator has "woken."

[Ellipsis]

> Ellipsis, would you address the point I made at 14:56.

OK, I'll do you that courtesy, not that you address every point made at you but hey-ho. At 14:56 you wrote:

> 14:37, ellipsis, that example shows she was correct in the first place. A woman, born a woman, decides to transition to a man and then has the instinct to want to have a baby?? I'd say she was in the correct body to start with.

The correct body to have a baby, yes, I agree.

> If we play along with this wokery then there are men in women's bodies and women in men's bodies, right? so which one is this?

This was a woman who wanted to be a man, began that transition, stopped to have a baby, and will probably finish that transition some time later.

If this person was your child, I wonder whether you'd support them or denigrate them.

[Togo]

^^ It only took 3 hours to invent a series of almost impossible "circumstances" to justify the nonsense previously written with conviction, but without veracity. Another example of the self centred introspection that is in fact an example of the paralysis by analysis that is mistakenly perceived to be thoughtful consideration.

[gulliver1]

P/P 17.05 PMSL.

[Paigntonian]

As Umm says: Don't use these terms. What they gonna do?