Whilst Mulling Departing For Pastures...
ChatterBank0 min ago
More On Brexit
38 Answers
Whenever I post on this site what an absolute disaster Brexit is for the UK, the Brexiteers cry foul, and ask for hard evidence. The youtube video below is a good start, with the presenter clearly identifying the source of the presented information.
As ever, the Brexiteers are sure to rubbish it, claiming it is just some lefty, 5C nonsense – just how long can the Brexiteers continue to ignore the truth?
The video is well worth a watch.
As ever, the Brexiteers are sure to rubbish it, claiming it is just some lefty, 5C nonsense – just how long can the Brexiteers continue to ignore the truth?
The video is well worth a watch.
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hymie: "it is clear from the Brexiteers posts on this site – no matter what proof of the Brexit devastation, it will be a very very long time before they go very quiet. " - Not true, when you post something that we consider bad enough to warrant "devastation" rather than irrelevant cherry picked stats that we couldn't care less about that were not anything to do with brexit or even if they were they are nothing to do with why we voted brexit, then you may get regret. You haven't done that yet, you just bleat on about the same stupid list that you trot out 5 times a week.
Hymie you need a more subtle approach.
Brexit always seemed a bad idea to me and I still think that but tosay its an absolutely disaster is oTT and it puts brexiters on the defensive or attack. And continually posting mocking how dumb they were is just going to turn people off who might have doubts but don't like been mocked... like all your nonsense about crown marks and mileage signs.
Brexit will not be revers'd overnight....it'll evolve over tens of years.the picture won't be clear for years
Brexit always seemed a bad idea to me and I still think that but tosay its an absolutely disaster is oTT and it puts brexiters on the defensive or attack. And continually posting mocking how dumb they were is just going to turn people off who might have doubts but don't like been mocked... like all your nonsense about crown marks and mileage signs.
Brexit will not be revers'd overnight....it'll evolve over tens of years.the picture won't be clear for years
//Hymie. When Brexiteers realise and accept what they've done to their country they'll go very quiet.//
I realise precisely what the 17m Brexiteers (of which I am proudly one) have done to their country. They have extracted it from a pernicious, protectionist organisation which has stifled its prosperity and tried to homogenise it into becoming part of a European Federal state for half a century. What follows now - whether good or bad - is immaterial and to keep harping on about how terrible it all is, just a short while after we have left, is tiresome. I expected nothing in particular from Brexit and I certainly was not swayed in my decision by anything politicians on either side told me (regular readers will know that I do not believe politicians of any persuasion). All I wanted - and expected - was for the UK to no longer be a member of the European Union. That's been achieved, I'm happy, I've nothing to be sorry for, nothing to regret and nothing to keep quiet about.
//It was wrong to leave,//
No it most certainly was not.
//If the champions of Brexit can not answer was it a good idea or not then there has to be questions asked about it .//
As above. I am a champion of Brexit and I believe it was an excellent idea. Once businesses adapt to the new order and stop hand wringing, we can move on. You never know, the EU might eventually get over the truculence that it has assumed since we left and resume a normal relationship with one of its closest neighbours and trading partners (but I'll not hold my breath). But the important thing is that the UK has left the EU. Nothing much that cannot be eventually addressed will happen and quite honestly, even if it does, it doesn't really matter as much as the UK resuming its history as a normal (i.e. non-EU) nation.
//When I hear someone selectively 'proving' their point I'm always reminded of a Statistics book I have, How To Lie With Statistics,...//
By Darrell Huff, if I recall. An excellent little tome.
I realise precisely what the 17m Brexiteers (of which I am proudly one) have done to their country. They have extracted it from a pernicious, protectionist organisation which has stifled its prosperity and tried to homogenise it into becoming part of a European Federal state for half a century. What follows now - whether good or bad - is immaterial and to keep harping on about how terrible it all is, just a short while after we have left, is tiresome. I expected nothing in particular from Brexit and I certainly was not swayed in my decision by anything politicians on either side told me (regular readers will know that I do not believe politicians of any persuasion). All I wanted - and expected - was for the UK to no longer be a member of the European Union. That's been achieved, I'm happy, I've nothing to be sorry for, nothing to regret and nothing to keep quiet about.
//It was wrong to leave,//
No it most certainly was not.
//If the champions of Brexit can not answer was it a good idea or not then there has to be questions asked about it .//
As above. I am a champion of Brexit and I believe it was an excellent idea. Once businesses adapt to the new order and stop hand wringing, we can move on. You never know, the EU might eventually get over the truculence that it has assumed since we left and resume a normal relationship with one of its closest neighbours and trading partners (but I'll not hold my breath). But the important thing is that the UK has left the EU. Nothing much that cannot be eventually addressed will happen and quite honestly, even if it does, it doesn't really matter as much as the UK resuming its history as a normal (i.e. non-EU) nation.
//When I hear someone selectively 'proving' their point I'm always reminded of a Statistics book I have, How To Lie With Statistics,...//
By Darrell Huff, if I recall. An excellent little tome.
We are out, so it was clearly no disaster, and pointless continually saying it is, in the hope of swaying the opinion of the more naive citizens. Any present issues are just stuff which needs to be sorted. Like the NI border, the idiotic Irish Sea "border", getting out of the ECHR, etc. etc. etc.. No real difference to any other time when one has to fight for common sense and one's rights as a nation. There's always something that needs attention.
There are videos pointing out benefits, but for the most part the benefits were known prior to the referendum and swayed the country; and so aren't continually repeated again. We are out, we have control but unfortunately we find Brexit was necessary but clearly not sufficient as we are still being restricted unjustifiably. One day a government with the globes to sort what remains to be done will get in; but it may need the population to stop voting for the present main parties, as neither are showing that they are up to it.
Old_Geezer
//There are videos pointing out benefits, but for the most part the benefits were known prior to the referendum and swayed the country; and so aren't continually repeated again//
Care to post a link to the ones that have manifested themselves since the vote?
These two bags of sovereignty are getting dusty on the shelf……
//There are videos pointing out benefits, but for the most part the benefits were known prior to the referendum and swayed the country; and so aren't continually repeated again//
Care to post a link to the ones that have manifested themselves since the vote?
These two bags of sovereignty are getting dusty on the shelf……
One benefit of Brexit was our vaccine rollout which was absolutely second to none and couldn't have been achieved under EU membership. And if anyone wants a really good reason for leaving the EU they only have to re-visit the words of Mr Juncker prior to the referendum when he threatened, 'Leave the EU and we will make your lives a misery'. If I was undecided before, that was the catalyst in confirming my Brexit vote. Anyone who capitulates to that sort of intimidation is even more cowardly than the weak and ineffectual whingers who think we can't survive without being tied to the EU's apron strings. We can and we will. Get some gumption!
naomi24
//One benefit of Brexit was our vaccine rollout which was absolutely second to none and couldn't have been achieved under EU membership//
I’d put that down to the impartial scientists and doctors, not a government which resisted the majority of medical advice until it was proving incredulous to do so.
It certainly wasn’t one of the Brexit ‘promises’ for sure.
//One benefit of Brexit was our vaccine rollout which was absolutely second to none and couldn't have been achieved under EU membership//
I’d put that down to the impartial scientists and doctors, not a government which resisted the majority of medical advice until it was proving incredulous to do so.
It certainly wasn’t one of the Brexit ‘promises’ for sure.
First he tries to deny Covid, and the response to it, caused economic problems by claiming it was used as a scapegoat for Brexit. So immediately you know he's not interested in reality but going to spout guano by the truckload.
Change causes disruption, so one would expect a blip in trade with an intransigent EU who are more interested in punishing the leaver that being reasonable; but even knowing this, the effect of the pandemic and war, which swamps any blip, is dismissed, as otherwise it would lose the opportunity to try to do down Brexit, were one to be fair.
Making a daft strawman video of someone looking unbalanced and claiming all is ok because we can trade with the whole world, is poor argument. Of course we are free to trade with the world, and that is picking up. It does not negate the points about other, more effecting economic issues noted above.
Plus being obsessed with trade/economics is probably what got us into the position of being a vassal state to the EU Commission in the first place. Surely it is blatantly clear to all by now that the EU is NOT just a trading block, it comes with loss of control of one's own nation and acceptance of an unelected elite demanding you do as you are told, and which suits their interests not you nation's. Intelligent politicians should know everything has a priority and their relative positions change over time. A small blip for a while on the economic front in order to become an independent nation again is worth that price many many times over.
And where is this evidence that trade is now all dandy with the rest of the world but done nothing in the UK ? Notablely shown with a sleeping actor, presumably to try to convince the gullible where there is no real evidence to really show.
And this is only a few minutes into your recommended video.
As for the chart, it clearly shows we are starting to pick up again, which looks good for a nation proud enough to help an invaded one as much as we have. Recall also that this is against a background of animosity from the EU. It's interesting that the chart creator put all economy values together just prior to the pandemic rather than show a true comparison of economic strength, one might think they were trying to manipulate something, or is that too cynical: but even so you will also notice that the pandemic fall effected all much the same and it's simply a slower recovery for us who are in the process of establishing an improved economic situation.
I don't think it is worth listening/watching further; clearly while in transition from an unacceptable situation as an insignificant area of an EU empire, to a free nation there will be a period where the economy is slower to recover but it is beyond the Pale to try to ignore that in order to claim the activity of Brexit was a bad idea. It is self evident to the majority of the UK that it was a necessity which is why they voted for it. And this sort of propaganda video trying to push Newspeak, where up is the new down, and north the new south, cuts no ice at all.
Change causes disruption, so one would expect a blip in trade with an intransigent EU who are more interested in punishing the leaver that being reasonable; but even knowing this, the effect of the pandemic and war, which swamps any blip, is dismissed, as otherwise it would lose the opportunity to try to do down Brexit, were one to be fair.
Making a daft strawman video of someone looking unbalanced and claiming all is ok because we can trade with the whole world, is poor argument. Of course we are free to trade with the world, and that is picking up. It does not negate the points about other, more effecting economic issues noted above.
Plus being obsessed with trade/economics is probably what got us into the position of being a vassal state to the EU Commission in the first place. Surely it is blatantly clear to all by now that the EU is NOT just a trading block, it comes with loss of control of one's own nation and acceptance of an unelected elite demanding you do as you are told, and which suits their interests not you nation's. Intelligent politicians should know everything has a priority and their relative positions change over time. A small blip for a while on the economic front in order to become an independent nation again is worth that price many many times over.
And where is this evidence that trade is now all dandy with the rest of the world but done nothing in the UK ? Notablely shown with a sleeping actor, presumably to try to convince the gullible where there is no real evidence to really show.
And this is only a few minutes into your recommended video.
As for the chart, it clearly shows we are starting to pick up again, which looks good for a nation proud enough to help an invaded one as much as we have. Recall also that this is against a background of animosity from the EU. It's interesting that the chart creator put all economy values together just prior to the pandemic rather than show a true comparison of economic strength, one might think they were trying to manipulate something, or is that too cynical: but even so you will also notice that the pandemic fall effected all much the same and it's simply a slower recovery for us who are in the process of establishing an improved economic situation.
I don't think it is worth listening/watching further; clearly while in transition from an unacceptable situation as an insignificant area of an EU empire, to a free nation there will be a period where the economy is slower to recover but it is beyond the Pale to try to ignore that in order to claim the activity of Brexit was a bad idea. It is self evident to the majority of the UK that it was a necessity which is why they voted for it. And this sort of propaganda video trying to push Newspeak, where up is the new down, and north the new south, cuts no ice at all.
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