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Moderate Muslims
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Are the 'moderate' muslims in the UK aware that they will be crushed and treated as apostates if their dream of an islamic UK state were ever to become a reality?
In my opinion, islam is very much like communism. The standard bearers of both like to espouse the virtues of their particular political / religious ideology, knowing full well that many people will be slaughtered as a result. The ones doing the espousing always justify their belief by convincing themselves that they will be the ones who make up the ruling elite of such an ideology. It never seems to occur to these zealots and bigots that they will be eaten by their own.
Do the westernised, moderate muslims truly think that they will be spared the wrath of political islam?
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Keyplus, since many who have been around here for any length of time are aware that you are well--practised in the art of Taqiyya, your reputation precedes you. You said what you said. As Vulcan says, wriggle all you want.
Khandro, Keyplus was asked if he would marry his 9 year old daughter to an older man. That was his response. Furthermore, that political extremist wing [that] wishes to take over ["your"] Europe (your post at 08:55 Tue 14th Nov) …. think on that. I refer you to Thomas Mann. I’m sure you get my drift.
Khandro, Keyplus was asked if he would marry his 9 year old daughter to an older man. That was his response. Furthermore, that political extremist wing [that] wishes to take over ["your"] Europe (your post at 08:55 Tue 14th Nov) …. think on that. I refer you to Thomas Mann. I’m sure you get my drift.
You are just digging a deeper hole for yourself Naomi. Good thing that AB does not allow people editing otherwise I would expect you to go into that thread and add words and associate to me. There is nothing wrong in accepting that you were wrong. And I do not need anyone to second me with my opinion about you but I know you always need backup from someone to come and say something. This time it happens to be Vulkan.
naomi; You are correct to point out that I have more than once stated that I fear the political extremist wing of Islam, - that which wishes to overpower the West and all its values, but I don't think that the man you attack has anything to do with that.
You did say though that he would marry his 9 year old daughter to an old man and you haven't been able to substantiate this, and in any case the matter does not arise because it would of course be unlawful to do so both in the UK, the rest of Europe and all the civilised countries of the world.
You did say though that he would marry his 9 year old daughter to an old man and you haven't been able to substantiate this, and in any case the matter does not arise because it would of course be unlawful to do so both in the UK, the rest of Europe and all the civilised countries of the world.
//I have more than once stated that I fear the political extremist wing of Islam, - that which wishes to overpower the West and all its values, but I don't think that the man you attack has anything to do with that.//
I have seen Keyplus saying that he wants Sharia in the UK, Khandro. He has praised the Sharia penal code with its stonings and amputations many times. So he shares the aims of "the political extremists" even he doesn't endorse some of their methods. Jihad (as Abdel-Samad pointed out in "Islamo-Fascism") is not all (or even necessarily) about violence: it's struggle by all means to establish the supremacy of Islam over the House of War.
I have seen Keyplus saying that he wants Sharia in the UK, Khandro. He has praised the Sharia penal code with its stonings and amputations many times. So he shares the aims of "the political extremists" even he doesn't endorse some of their methods. Jihad (as Abdel-Samad pointed out in "Islamo-Fascism") is not all (or even necessarily) about violence: it's struggle by all means to establish the supremacy of Islam over the House of War.
I also remember one thread when Keyplus made the points cited by Naomi (although it wouldn't have been as far back as 2010 when I was still working).
In his defence, of course - committed as he is to the bizarre notion that Mohammed is the perfect model of conduct - then he must take the position he has. ("There he stands. He can do no other" - did you see the BBC4 two-parter on Luther, by the way?)
On the child bride issue he states three conditions under which he would approve it: the girls has reached puberty, she has "consented"(!) to the marriage, and the marriage has the consent of the parents.
In the case of Aisha she was married at six even though the marriage wasn't consummated then. So that kind of makes nonsense of the first two conditions. As for parental consent this is a hadith recorded in Sahih Bukhari:
The Prophet asked Abu Bakr for 'Aisha's hand in marriage. Abu Bakr said "But I am your brother." The Prophet said, "You are my brother in Allah's religion and His Book, but she (Aisha) is lawful for me to marry."
Make of that what you will.
In his defence, of course - committed as he is to the bizarre notion that Mohammed is the perfect model of conduct - then he must take the position he has. ("There he stands. He can do no other" - did you see the BBC4 two-parter on Luther, by the way?)
On the child bride issue he states three conditions under which he would approve it: the girls has reached puberty, she has "consented"(!) to the marriage, and the marriage has the consent of the parents.
In the case of Aisha she was married at six even though the marriage wasn't consummated then. So that kind of makes nonsense of the first two conditions. As for parental consent this is a hadith recorded in Sahih Bukhari:
The Prophet asked Abu Bakr for 'Aisha's hand in marriage. Abu Bakr said "But I am your brother." The Prophet said, "You are my brother in Allah's religion and His Book, but she (Aisha) is lawful for me to marry."
Make of that what you will.
While following the thread and browsing around I came across this excellent example of Dawah. The beautifully named Myriam Francois-Cerrah is giving the bien-pensants their correct take on the Aisha story:
https:/
The final paragraph is superb:
"Those who manipulate her story to justify the abuse of young girls, and those who manipulate it in order to depict Islam as a religion that legitimises such abuse have more in common than they think. Both demonstrate a disregard for what we know about the times in which Muhammad lived, and for the affirmation of female autonomy which her story illustrates."
Naughty old us, then. Oh, "and the times in which Muhammed lived"?
Chutzpah (forgive the Yiddish, Myriam)!
https:/
The final paragraph is superb:
"Those who manipulate her story to justify the abuse of young girls, and those who manipulate it in order to depict Islam as a religion that legitimises such abuse have more in common than they think. Both demonstrate a disregard for what we know about the times in which Muhammad lived, and for the affirmation of female autonomy which her story illustrates."
Naughty old us, then. Oh, "and the times in which Muhammed lived"?
Chutzpah (forgive the Yiddish, Myriam)!
v_e: I missed the Luther film - thought it was screened at Khandro Towers in German, but I didn't watch.
I can't vouch for the accuracy of these dates but they seem reasonable;
https:/
In that in the early middle ages (5th-12 cents) European women reached puberty on average at 14, in the 16th cent. it rose to 16 ditto Victorian times, but it is now dropping at an alarming, and not understood, rate of 12 or less.
I can't vouch for the accuracy of these dates but they seem reasonable;
https:/
In that in the early middle ages (5th-12 cents) European women reached puberty on average at 14, in the 16th cent. it rose to 16 ditto Victorian times, but it is now dropping at an alarming, and not understood, rate of 12 or less.
Khandro, //Hmm!//
Does that mean you now doubt v_e’s word?
//I don't think that the man you attack has anything to do with that.//
Your thoughts do not reflect reality.
Keyplus, no holes being dug here and I am not in contact with v_e outside this forum. What is it ‘they’ say about protesting too much?
Does that mean you now doubt v_e’s word?
//I don't think that the man you attack has anything to do with that.//
Your thoughts do not reflect reality.
Keyplus, no holes being dug here and I am not in contact with v_e outside this forum. What is it ‘they’ say about protesting too much?
naomi; "Hmm", means exactly that. I've been hanging about on here for quite a while (8 or 9 years) and I've yet to hear keyplus say he is in favour of child marriages or stoning to death, but heaven knows what may have been said long ago in the mists of time, and Bulgarian wine has a tendency to blur the memory.
///Interesting that Keyplus (or anyone else) never answered my question on this thread (Nov 14th @17:51)///
The reason I did not answer your question is that you r question has already been answered. I know it will not change anything but here you go I will try again.
///But who in their right minds would WANT to marry a girl who is just transitioning into adulthood, Whether they be 9, 10,11, or 12?
Creepy!////
And the answer is go and ask the people who do it as I am not sure why you are asking me!
The reason I did not answer your question is that you r question has already been answered. I know it will not change anything but here you go I will try again.
///But who in their right minds would WANT to marry a girl who is just transitioning into adulthood, Whether they be 9, 10,11, or 12?
Creepy!////
And the answer is go and ask the people who do it as I am not sure why you are asking me!
Khandro - my suggestion is that just agree with whatever Naomi is saying and save your time. That is what I do because for me I believe in the saying that arguing with a stubborn (and arrogant) person is like draining one's own brain and intellect. However for others (like Naomi) it’s a matter of prestige or some sort of complex to do with self preservation and therefore she will keep on arguing as long as you will keep on posting.
