Law2 mins ago
Eu Re-Join March – London 22 October
Some of you may not be aware of the growing movement in support of the UK re-joining the EU given the disaster that Brexit has been for the UK. There are now many who believe the UK re-joining is inevitable.
For those wanting to attend the re-join march, the assembly point is the Dorchester Hotel, Park Lane, London at midday.
For more info see here:
https:/
To the Brexiteers amongst you, having failed to list a single benefit from Brexit despite my continued asking (on this site); the question now before you is to list a single negative that would result from us re-joining?
For those wanting to attend the re-join march, the assembly point is the Dorchester Hotel, Park Lane, London at midday.
For more info see here:
https:/
To the Brexiteers amongst you, having failed to list a single benefit from Brexit despite my continued asking (on this site); the question now before you is to list a single negative that would result from us re-joining?
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Rather than inconveniencing the public and causing police costs with a March why don't those whose desperate to rejoin form a rejoin party ready for the 2024 election or encourage every one to vote Green or Lib Dem if they promise to take us back in. I can't see Labour wanting to put it in there manifestoe .
bobinwales: "Rather than inconveniencing the public and causing police costs with a March why don't those whose desperate to rejoin form a rejoin party ready for the 2024 election or encourage every one to vote Green or Lib Dem if they promise to take us back in. I can't see Labour wanting to put it in there manifestoe . " - or they could just ugger boff to their beloved EUSSR just across the channel.
//It's probably Junckers who swung it for Brexit. Britain does not react well to threats and ultimatums.//
I don't thing the Germans (in particular) are very good at understanding stuff. The might have got an impression of the British psyche by watching "The Great Escape" & "Colditz" but I don't suppose those films are screened much over there.
I don't thing the Germans (in particular) are very good at understanding stuff. The might have got an impression of the British psyche by watching "The Great Escape" & "Colditz" but I don't suppose those films are screened much over there.
Not a Brexiteer, if there even is such a thing any more.
But it seems to me that there are two (or three, depending on how you count) reasons not to rejoin, at least any time soon.
1. Whether or not there's increased support (polls, I think, show a small swing towards wanting to rejoin), the fact remains that the country is still deeply divided on the issue. It also seems clear that the Tories are understandably for staying out, and Labour have ruled out campaigning to rejoin, so we can anyway rule it out politically for the foreseeable future; but, even if not, I think it would be a difficult sell to the wider public while the decision is still raw.
2. Moreover, I think it would be frankly devastating to adopt a principle that the decision for the UK to apply to Leave or Rejoin the EU is one that comes up for review every five years, with each general election and party promising to either overturn the 2016 result or reaffirm it. It's a recipe for total instability. There is in general a principle that large-scale decisions and changes in the UK are "left alone", even if you don't necessarily like those changes or campaigned against them, for the sake of stability. Hence, for example, the Tories campaigned against the NHS at the point of its founding, but once they had lost the argument, the idea of dismantling it was never in question. More topically, hence also the (temporary) disappearance of opposition at higher levels to the EEC/EU etc since the decision to join (and then the referendum of 1975), for a generation or more. There's no constitutional rule enforcing this, but I think most people tend to understand that undoing and redoing such monumental shifts every, say, ten years or less, is just self-destructive.
3. And, besides, what would the EU think of all this? We formally left only in 2020, barely two years ago, after three years of protracted negotiations in which both sides were exhausted, absorbed in some amount of infighting, and were arguably unable to focus on other, more important issues. Rejoining would hardly be a matter of cancelling all that and returning to the status quo ante. The EU27 would (rightly, as surely Brexiteers would agree) be keen to have some guarantee that the decision to rejoin wouldn't then be reneged upon (see (2)) the next time a new Brexit-supporting party arrived in Government, a guarantee that we couldn't provide (since it conflicts with our Constitution). And, also understandably, having left it seems equally extremely unlikely that we would be able to rejoin on the same terms, or perhaps more favourable ones. More likely, we'd be obliged to accept certain provisions that we'd previously opted out of. The questions of whether the UK would need to adopt the Euro (a requirement for new members), or join Schengen (ditto), and so on, would no doubt drag the process out again for many years, and the less favourable terms that would result would likely be perceived as something of a national humiliation. We've had quite enough of those for the time being.
All of this is a long-winded way of saying that Brexit's happened, and it isn't going to un-happen any time soon. Let's revisit the question in ten years (or two proper election cycles), and if a new consensus across politics and generations emerges that we should rejoin, then, fine, so much the better in my opinion. But trying to force the issue now is just a monumentally bad idea.
But it seems to me that there are two (or three, depending on how you count) reasons not to rejoin, at least any time soon.
1. Whether or not there's increased support (polls, I think, show a small swing towards wanting to rejoin), the fact remains that the country is still deeply divided on the issue. It also seems clear that the Tories are understandably for staying out, and Labour have ruled out campaigning to rejoin, so we can anyway rule it out politically for the foreseeable future; but, even if not, I think it would be a difficult sell to the wider public while the decision is still raw.
2. Moreover, I think it would be frankly devastating to adopt a principle that the decision for the UK to apply to Leave or Rejoin the EU is one that comes up for review every five years, with each general election and party promising to either overturn the 2016 result or reaffirm it. It's a recipe for total instability. There is in general a principle that large-scale decisions and changes in the UK are "left alone", even if you don't necessarily like those changes or campaigned against them, for the sake of stability. Hence, for example, the Tories campaigned against the NHS at the point of its founding, but once they had lost the argument, the idea of dismantling it was never in question. More topically, hence also the (temporary) disappearance of opposition at higher levels to the EEC/EU etc since the decision to join (and then the referendum of 1975), for a generation or more. There's no constitutional rule enforcing this, but I think most people tend to understand that undoing and redoing such monumental shifts every, say, ten years or less, is just self-destructive.
3. And, besides, what would the EU think of all this? We formally left only in 2020, barely two years ago, after three years of protracted negotiations in which both sides were exhausted, absorbed in some amount of infighting, and were arguably unable to focus on other, more important issues. Rejoining would hardly be a matter of cancelling all that and returning to the status quo ante. The EU27 would (rightly, as surely Brexiteers would agree) be keen to have some guarantee that the decision to rejoin wouldn't then be reneged upon (see (2)) the next time a new Brexit-supporting party arrived in Government, a guarantee that we couldn't provide (since it conflicts with our Constitution). And, also understandably, having left it seems equally extremely unlikely that we would be able to rejoin on the same terms, or perhaps more favourable ones. More likely, we'd be obliged to accept certain provisions that we'd previously opted out of. The questions of whether the UK would need to adopt the Euro (a requirement for new members), or join Schengen (ditto), and so on, would no doubt drag the process out again for many years, and the less favourable terms that would result would likely be perceived as something of a national humiliation. We've had quite enough of those for the time being.
All of this is a long-winded way of saying that Brexit's happened, and it isn't going to un-happen any time soon. Let's revisit the question in ten years (or two proper election cycles), and if a new consensus across politics and generations emerges that we should rejoin, then, fine, so much the better in my opinion. But trying to force the issue now is just a monumentally bad idea.
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