Body & Soul9 mins ago
Brexit?
Anyone know how this Brexit carry-on is doing.(Just asking for a friend).No empty shelves,no rationing of petrol,no asking back all these nasty Europeans we told to *** off back to their own countries or anything?As i said just asking for a friend.
Answers
//As i said just asking for a friend.// ynnafymmi - have you got any friends? Just asking.
08:43 Sun 26th Sep 2021
//it simply isn't true that Brexit was the culmination of some long process...//
I wouldn't say "simply" because nothing to do with the EU is simple, but I can tell you that the underswell of anti-Eu opinion in the UK goes back a long, long way. As I’ve said many times before on here, I decided in 1992 that, given the chance, I would vote to leave. I bided my time for almost a quarter of a century and nothing anybody said or did in between changed my mind. In fact my resolve was strengthened considerably when the Lisbon Treaty was signed by that nice Mr Miliband and (later in the day, because he was busy) Mr Brown. There’s plenty of articles available to explain this evolution but it is well known that the UK’s EU membership was a bone of contention among much of the electorate for many years and with each new “Treaty” – when further integration occurred – that debate was aired again. Brexit may not have happened if the country had been given a referendum on the Lisbon Treaty (as it should have been) but voters were not granted that privilege so the sore continued to fester. This is quite a succinct article which explains the evolution of the UK’s disillusionment with its EU membership:
https:/
I did not expect any immediate advantages to follow from our leaving. I fully expected the EU to make it as difficult and inconvenient as possible and for them to continue to do so if and when we did leave. In that respect I was entirely unsurprised and continue to be so whenever problems which are “caused by Brexit” arise. What I did not expect was the obstruction and obfuscation that flowed from UK politicians and others, especially from the Tory side of the House. This is especially so when it was a Tory Prime Minister who told the nation, in writing prior to the vote, that his government would implement the decision of the referendum. That said I often urge people on here never to believe anything politicians (of any persuasion) tell them, so I should not have been surprised.
I wouldn't say "simply" because nothing to do with the EU is simple, but I can tell you that the underswell of anti-Eu opinion in the UK goes back a long, long way. As I’ve said many times before on here, I decided in 1992 that, given the chance, I would vote to leave. I bided my time for almost a quarter of a century and nothing anybody said or did in between changed my mind. In fact my resolve was strengthened considerably when the Lisbon Treaty was signed by that nice Mr Miliband and (later in the day, because he was busy) Mr Brown. There’s plenty of articles available to explain this evolution but it is well known that the UK’s EU membership was a bone of contention among much of the electorate for many years and with each new “Treaty” – when further integration occurred – that debate was aired again. Brexit may not have happened if the country had been given a referendum on the Lisbon Treaty (as it should have been) but voters were not granted that privilege so the sore continued to fester. This is quite a succinct article which explains the evolution of the UK’s disillusionment with its EU membership:
https:/
I did not expect any immediate advantages to follow from our leaving. I fully expected the EU to make it as difficult and inconvenient as possible and for them to continue to do so if and when we did leave. In that respect I was entirely unsurprised and continue to be so whenever problems which are “caused by Brexit” arise. What I did not expect was the obstruction and obfuscation that flowed from UK politicians and others, especially from the Tory side of the House. This is especially so when it was a Tory Prime Minister who told the nation, in writing prior to the vote, that his government would implement the decision of the referendum. That said I often urge people on here never to believe anything politicians (of any persuasion) tell them, so I should not have been surprised.
As far as the tanker drivers problem goes, although it may not have helped, it is obviously not a problem caused by Brexit. A week or so ago there were no supply problems. Since then I doubt many tanker drivers have left the business. Maybe a few. I certainly do not think many drivers from the EU have returned to their home countries in the last week. If they were going to, they would have done so before now. But now half the country’s petrol stations are out of fuel. So what’s caused this? The same phenomenon that saw a shortage of toilet rolls – media hype followed by panic buying. There were plenty of toilet rolls around. They were just not on supermarket shelves but in people’s sheds and garages instead. All that happened in the last week was that BP reported that supplies to a very small number of its outlets had been delayed and a few of them ran out of fuel. Once that was in the air, the panicking began. There were scenes of people filling huge numbers of containers full of fuel and reports of people topping up their tanks with ridiculously small amounts “just to keep it topped up”. Fuel is a bit more difficult to store than toilet rolls and once this panicking subsides (or when the fuel that people have stored in their sheds causes a few fires) the supply will return to normal. Here is an article that explains most of this:
https:/
Blaming Brexit for all the country's woes will obviously continue. None of the major prophesies propounded by the architects of Project Fear have materialised. The only major difficulty that I have seen is the disgusting state of trade between GB and Northern Ireland. This is a result of Brexit or, more specifically, a result of the appalling "Northern Ireland Protocol" which should never even have been discussed, let alone signed. Hopefully somebody in government will grow a pair and the protocol ditched.
https:/
Blaming Brexit for all the country's woes will obviously continue. None of the major prophesies propounded by the architects of Project Fear have materialised. The only major difficulty that I have seen is the disgusting state of trade between GB and Northern Ireland. This is a result of Brexit or, more specifically, a result of the appalling "Northern Ireland Protocol" which should never even have been discussed, let alone signed. Hopefully somebody in government will grow a pair and the protocol ditched.
"As I’ve said many times before on here, I decided in 1992 that, given the chance, I would vote to leave. I bided my time for almost a quarter of a century and nothing anybody said or did in between changed my mind. "
I'm sure you did... but you are not a normal person. Most people were not particularly interested in the EU before the referendum...
There has always been a hardline group of rightwing eurosceptics - they are the reason Cameron spoke about tories "banging on about Europe" - but they were a fringe-but-vocal cause before 2016.
I'm sure you did... but you are not a normal person. Most people were not particularly interested in the EU before the referendum...
There has always been a hardline group of rightwing eurosceptics - they are the reason Cameron spoke about tories "banging on about Europe" - but they were a fringe-but-vocal cause before 2016.
//I'm sure you did... but you are not a normal person. Most people were not particularly interested in the EU before the referendum...//
I would accept (just about) that "most" (i.e. >50%) were probably not interested. But "most" people have little interest in politics in any form until it affects them. But there was a significant number who were and your contention that Brexit came about because the issue was raised a short time before the referendum does not hold water. The referendum was called because Mr Cameron knew that if it was not there was as strong likelihood that the Tory party would be split asunder. The Conservatives were the only party in recent times who actually considered that there might, just might, be a few people in the country who were unsatisfied with our membership. Others seemed to believe it was simply a given, that it would continue until the end of time, and questioning it was heresy.
I do accept that many people became more interested as the referendum campaign progressed but the percentage turnout was the largest seen in any nationwide vote since 1992. So something sparked their interest. For those complaining that the vote was won by virtue of the campaign, if that's true, whose fault is that? I thought election campaigns were supposed to influence voters (though they don't influence me).
BTW, there is nothing abnormal in being concerned about the sovereignty and constitution of one's nation. I would say that in many countries it is considered abnormal not to be concerned.
I would accept (just about) that "most" (i.e. >50%) were probably not interested. But "most" people have little interest in politics in any form until it affects them. But there was a significant number who were and your contention that Brexit came about because the issue was raised a short time before the referendum does not hold water. The referendum was called because Mr Cameron knew that if it was not there was as strong likelihood that the Tory party would be split asunder. The Conservatives were the only party in recent times who actually considered that there might, just might, be a few people in the country who were unsatisfied with our membership. Others seemed to believe it was simply a given, that it would continue until the end of time, and questioning it was heresy.
I do accept that many people became more interested as the referendum campaign progressed but the percentage turnout was the largest seen in any nationwide vote since 1992. So something sparked their interest. For those complaining that the vote was won by virtue of the campaign, if that's true, whose fault is that? I thought election campaigns were supposed to influence voters (though they don't influence me).
BTW, there is nothing abnormal in being concerned about the sovereignty and constitution of one's nation. I would say that in many countries it is considered abnormal not to be concerned.
Well done to both of you. To my eternal shame I voted "Yes" (to remain) in 1975. But I was young and naive and never in my wildest dreams believed that successive UK governments would sacrifice the country to the control of a bunch of unelected foreign bureaucrats.
But you live and learn. But as jd says, if enough of us had been worldly wise in 1975, our membership may have ended there and then and we could all have been saved a lot of bother.
But you live and learn. But as jd says, if enough of us had been worldly wise in 1975, our membership may have ended there and then and we could all have been saved a lot of bother.
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