News0 min ago
Scottish National Party & The Scottish
Nicola Sturgeon has pledged to rejoin the EU as soon as possible after claiming Scotland had been taken out of the bloc against its will because of Brexit & is writing letters to various European newspapers saying so.
Are you Scottish, if so does she speak for you? Would you like to be separated from the rest of the UK & be a part of the EU instead?
Are you Scottish, if so does she speak for you? Would you like to be separated from the rest of the UK & be a part of the EU instead?
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Whilst the vote was about remaining in the UK, the UK at that time was in the EU and there were no thoughts of altering that position.
No doubt that had an impact upon the way folk voted and since the UK has left the EU, those voters might have changed their opinion.
It is only fair to test that by means of a referendum.
No doubt that had an impact upon the way folk voted and since the UK has left the EU, those voters might have changed their opinion.
It is only fair to test that by means of a referendum.
> In 2014 there was no talk of the UK leaving the EU.
My memory is that the chances of the UK leaving the EU were used by the SNP in 2014 as a reason to vote for independence. The Scots independence vote took place on 18 September 2014. Here are some key events that took place leading up to that ...
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22 January 2013: In a long awaited speech Prime Minister David Cameron says that if the Conservatives win the next election they would seek to renegotiate the UK's relationship with the EU and then give the British people the "simple choice" in 2017 between staying in the EU under those terms or leaving the EU. His speech comes against a background of polls suggesting UK Independence Party support at 10%.
5 July 2013: The Conservative backbencher James Wharton brings forward a bill to enshrine in law his party's pledge to hold an in/out referendum in 2017. It passes its second reading by 304 votes to 0. It goes on to clear all its Commons hurdles before falling in the House of Lords.
31 January 2014: David Cameron says the Conservatives will bring back the Private Member's Bill and said he was prepared to use the Parliament Act to force it into law, rather than seeing the Lords block it again.
5 March 2014: It is announced that the BBC is to host a TV debate on Britain's future in Europe between UK Independence Party leader Nigel Farage - whose party is riding high in polls ahead of May's European election and who wants an immediate in/out referendum - and Nick Clegg, whose Lib Dems say they are the only "party of in" when it comes to the EU.
12 March 2014: Ed Miliband writes an article for the Financial Times in which he says that Labour will not hold a referendum on the UK's membership of the European Union unless there are proposals to transfer further powers from London to Brussels.
My memory is that the chances of the UK leaving the EU were used by the SNP in 2014 as a reason to vote for independence. The Scots independence vote took place on 18 September 2014. Here are some key events that took place leading up to that ...
https:/
22 January 2013: In a long awaited speech Prime Minister David Cameron says that if the Conservatives win the next election they would seek to renegotiate the UK's relationship with the EU and then give the British people the "simple choice" in 2017 between staying in the EU under those terms or leaving the EU. His speech comes against a background of polls suggesting UK Independence Party support at 10%.
5 July 2013: The Conservative backbencher James Wharton brings forward a bill to enshrine in law his party's pledge to hold an in/out referendum in 2017. It passes its second reading by 304 votes to 0. It goes on to clear all its Commons hurdles before falling in the House of Lords.
31 January 2014: David Cameron says the Conservatives will bring back the Private Member's Bill and said he was prepared to use the Parliament Act to force it into law, rather than seeing the Lords block it again.
5 March 2014: It is announced that the BBC is to host a TV debate on Britain's future in Europe between UK Independence Party leader Nigel Farage - whose party is riding high in polls ahead of May's European election and who wants an immediate in/out referendum - and Nick Clegg, whose Lib Dems say they are the only "party of in" when it comes to the EU.
12 March 2014: Ed Miliband writes an article for the Financial Times in which he says that Labour will not hold a referendum on the UK's membership of the European Union unless there are proposals to transfer further powers from London to Brussels.
> why do non Scots even care?
Because it - the United Kingdom of Great Britain and Northern Ireland, that is - is our country.
Perhaps you can picture two soldiers alongside each other, in the Falklands or Helmand province, doing their bit and spilling their blood for Queen and country. The same country. That's why it matters.
Because it - the United Kingdom of Great Britain and Northern Ireland, that is - is our country.
Perhaps you can picture two soldiers alongside each other, in the Falklands or Helmand province, doing their bit and spilling their blood for Queen and country. The same country. That's why it matters.
I ask the OP because I would genuinely like to hear from a real Scot (& there are several on AB) if they would (1) Like to leave the United Kingdom (OK if they do) & then (2) If that independence was achieved, give it away again to the unelected Brussels bureaucrats & their failing EU project?
Where's the sense in that, & what is this maniacal woman thinking of?
Where's the sense in that, & what is this maniacal woman thinking of?
It seems everyone is overlooking the fact that there were two or three main planks in the campaign against independence in 2014. One of them was most certainly that, if Scotland chose independence, Scotland would end up outside the EU. This definitely worried some people to the point that (all other things arriving at evens) they came down on the side of NO. Of the others were the currency, security of pensions. There was also the suggestion that the only way to still be able to call themselves British was to remain in the UK (like Canada, Mexico, etc. need to be in the USA to be American). Possibly what weighed heaviest is the military history, wars, etc. - pure sentiment. That was then.
One of them was most certainly that, if Scotland chose independence, Scotland would end up outside the EU. This definitely worried some people to the point that (all other things arriving at evens) they came down on the side of NO.
________________________
These same people won't be worried about being out of the EU and the UK then?
________________________
These same people won't be worried about being out of the EU and the UK then?
'The First Minister made the plea in a desperate message sent to newspapers across Europe. She said she hoped Scotland could “join you again soon as an equal partner as we face the opportunities and challenges of the future together”. '
She envisages Scotland as an equal partner to Germany! What meds is she on ?
She envisages Scotland as an equal partner to Germany! What meds is she on ?
All that you need to realise is that the snp party was the most vehemently opposed to the EUSSR in the UK when all the others, and particularly the political parties in England, were beating the drums for it. When the opposition to the EUSSR began to gain ground in England so the love of all things Eey Yoo jimmy, became the siren song. Indeed their 1975 referendumneverendum campaign was based on leaving the Eey Yoo calling the Common Market a ‘dangerous experiment in gross over-centralisation’. Haha.
//What are the border controls between Ulster and the ROI? The same arrangement could apply to Scotland.//
There are no border controls between Ulster (at least the six of the nine counties that are in the UK) and the ROI because of the peculiar situation where many people on both sides of the border refuse to accept that the island of Ireland accommodates two separate independent nations. Instead we now have a border between Great Britain and Northern Ireland in the Irish Sea. So whilst it is completely unacceptable to have a border between two independent nations of the island of Ireland, it appears perfectly acceptable to have one between two constituent parts of the United Kingdom which just happen to be separated by a stretch of water.
If Scotland became independent (unlikely) and managed to become a member of the EU (most unlikely) then there would have to be a border between England and Scotland. The Euromaniacs would insist on it as they have in Ireland (the island, not the Republic). They would be concerned that millions of euros worth of shoddy goods and rancid food would head up the M6 towards Gretna Green nightly, threatening the integrity of their precious Single Market and Customs Union. The UK would also insist on it because having spent four and a half years negotiating a plan of escape from the EU which now sees it able to determine who settles here and who doesn’t, it is hardly likely to jeopardise that new found but fundamental right when Scotland becomes an EU member and immediately opens up the right to settle there to 500m people.
It would not be easy to police that border since it is about 100 miles long and has at least 25 public roads and two railway lines crossing it. About 10,000 HGVs and around 80,000 people cross the border by road every day. About 9 million tons of freight cross it annually by the two rail routes. Scotland (or rather their new masters in the EU) would be concerned at the movement of goods whist the UK would be concerned about the movement of people.
So bearing in mind that there is no equivalent of the ludicrous “Good Friday Agreement” to dictate that the Anglo-Scottish border remains unpoliced it seems check points could be set up on the A1, the M6/A74(M) and the twenty odd other roads that straddle the border. What will happen to the Pennine Way as it stitches its way back and forth across the border is anybody’s guess but since that is pedestrian only that will be more a matter for the UK than the EU (unless the Euromaniacs envisage armies of Sherpas toting vast quantities of contraband along that ancient footway). Perhaps the Euromaniacs will insist on Cumbria and Northumberland rejoining their Customs Union as their price for not kicking u too much fuss. Anyway, as with currency conundrum and other trivial issues, I’m sure Ms Sturgeon has thought all this through. Personally I just wish she'd get on and do it (unilaterally if necessary) so I don't see so much of her on the telly.
There are no border controls between Ulster (at least the six of the nine counties that are in the UK) and the ROI because of the peculiar situation where many people on both sides of the border refuse to accept that the island of Ireland accommodates two separate independent nations. Instead we now have a border between Great Britain and Northern Ireland in the Irish Sea. So whilst it is completely unacceptable to have a border between two independent nations of the island of Ireland, it appears perfectly acceptable to have one between two constituent parts of the United Kingdom which just happen to be separated by a stretch of water.
If Scotland became independent (unlikely) and managed to become a member of the EU (most unlikely) then there would have to be a border between England and Scotland. The Euromaniacs would insist on it as they have in Ireland (the island, not the Republic). They would be concerned that millions of euros worth of shoddy goods and rancid food would head up the M6 towards Gretna Green nightly, threatening the integrity of their precious Single Market and Customs Union. The UK would also insist on it because having spent four and a half years negotiating a plan of escape from the EU which now sees it able to determine who settles here and who doesn’t, it is hardly likely to jeopardise that new found but fundamental right when Scotland becomes an EU member and immediately opens up the right to settle there to 500m people.
It would not be easy to police that border since it is about 100 miles long and has at least 25 public roads and two railway lines crossing it. About 10,000 HGVs and around 80,000 people cross the border by road every day. About 9 million tons of freight cross it annually by the two rail routes. Scotland (or rather their new masters in the EU) would be concerned at the movement of goods whist the UK would be concerned about the movement of people.
So bearing in mind that there is no equivalent of the ludicrous “Good Friday Agreement” to dictate that the Anglo-Scottish border remains unpoliced it seems check points could be set up on the A1, the M6/A74(M) and the twenty odd other roads that straddle the border. What will happen to the Pennine Way as it stitches its way back and forth across the border is anybody’s guess but since that is pedestrian only that will be more a matter for the UK than the EU (unless the Euromaniacs envisage armies of Sherpas toting vast quantities of contraband along that ancient footway). Perhaps the Euromaniacs will insist on Cumbria and Northumberland rejoining their Customs Union as their price for not kicking u too much fuss. Anyway, as with currency conundrum and other trivial issues, I’m sure Ms Sturgeon has thought all this through. Personally I just wish she'd get on and do it (unilaterally if necessary) so I don't see so much of her on the telly.
There is a fundamental question to be answered and that is will the EU want an independent Scotland on its books. I bet the economic qualification factors are not there - and Scotland has been the second most subsidised country after Tunisia from France as they want to keep a strategic wedge between Libya and Algeria.
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