Vj Day

[allenlondon]

How do older Japanese view the tragedy of the 2nd World War?

A gentle and cultured people, how do they explain the dreadful acts of their parents’ generation?

[Peter Pedant]

// Japan attacked & invaded offshore lands that we defended.//

erm bit of re-writing needed
I think it is Paradise Road ( interned women marched to exhaustion around some island ) - the opening is 'Oh Look, the Royal Navy has come to save us' - er no it is the Imperial J Navy and the beginning of four years of maltreatment

The Japanese tommy interviewed for the Burma campaign said - at Kohima and the Imphal - "it was the first time the British didnt turn and run- we couldnt believe it"

In fact it was a Japanese defeat and no provision had been made for retreat along the Road of Bones -which kinda summed up what happened

[carolegif]

The Japanese believed that you should fight to the death. It was severe loss of face and humiliation to be captured as a prisoner. They would commit Hare Kare (suicide) at her than be captured.
They therefore regarded with disgust the British prisoners as they didn’t commit suicide. The Japanese soldier considered it an insult to even care for these prisoners in camps when they should be fighting on the frontline, so they also took their frustration of their situation out on their captives.
Many Japanese lied to their families about running POW Camps, it was the lowest of the low.

[Peter Pedant]

// Many Japanese lied to their families about running POW Camps, it was the lowest of the low.//

oh agreed - my dear papa ( German POW) used to taunt his captors - dont beat us too much or you will be sent to the Russian front

[Peter Pedant]

// They therefore regarded with disgust the British prisoners as they didn’t commit suicide.//

yeah I never understood why the militarists in the Japanese Imperial war cabinet did suicide en masse when the Emperor surrendered

After Midway - which effectively decided the Pacific War (1942) only one commander committed suicide - in his diary my father noted "(the camp) is all rather pleased the american have made an appearance"

[KARL]

Many nations have something very unsavoury in their national history and within each of those there is an element who find it impossible to face up to and instead seek to wish it away, often as not by denial or at least adjusting some aspect(s). As so often, it is a matter of percentages - sometimes only a very few individuals, sometimes enough to be visible. Those who already knew/know may need to be persuaded to take facts on board. There is a realistic balance to be struck, those not even born at the time are entirely innocent but they need to know rather than things being hidden - how to present the history to best effect ?

The victors aren't burdened by their atrocities and often/invariably bury them. Some call themselves "Great", "World's Best", etc. and continue the conflict by incessantly celebrating (anniversaries), reminding (the enemy were so bad), wallowing (our poor heroes), etc. The conflict is relentlessly promoted ad nauseam so nobody can fail to know what is expected: posturing sympathy with the old/continuing/new cause. Certain parts of history are meant to remain so they can be clung to.

We had a visit yesterday from a 30 year old Japanese. I asked how Japanese people see WW2 these days. She said everyone is taught about the war at history classes in school. She was born 45 years after the war ended and I was not surprised that she did not appear to feel any of that period belonged to her. The impression I got was that she saw that period as one when rather deranged people ran her country. I did not press because I also felt she did not want me to. We have other Japanese friends more than twice her age, they also give no indication of wanting to personally own any part of the past. All three are inclined to criticise certain aspects of current Japanese politics, leadership, etc., just like people do elsewhere.

Yes, the notion of superiority was a feature of national self-promotion both in Germany and Japan during WW2, but how far do we have to go in the search for that sort of notion in today's world, excluding whether it is a feature of official international policy ? My suspicion is that if you could, with each individual, trace the source of such sentiments it is to be found in the previous generation. The vanquished teach their descendants to see war as a mistake/failure. The victors hang onto the "glory" and teach their descendants to lap it up and regurgitate it at every occasion/opportunity. Is that justifiable ?

[Peter Pedant]

letters from Iwo Jima
by this fella
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tadamichi_Kuribayashi

is worth a read. I didnt recognise the film at all.

Kuribashi is sent to defend a damned outpost and thinks he has been assigned the task because he told the high command the war was unwinnable

[Baldric]

PP @ 1202
The Japanese 'Tommy'
How very dare you. Tommy refers to British troops not Japanese.

[tamborine]

PP succinct is best as looooong diatribe would bore the life out of questioner ;)

[Hopkirk]

We have to live with the sins of our ancestors. Don't forget the British colonised so many countries, were at the forefront of slavery and operated concentration camps before the Nazis did.

[Peter Pedant]

oops sozza
二等兵 (nitōhei,)
private - but I was thinking more of poilu, tommy or grunt
no offence meant ( altho of course Japan fought in the trenches of Flanders - on our side too!)

[Peter Pedant]

PP succinct thx

[tamborine]

The mushroom on fuji was succinct

[Peter Pedant]

Yes

[anneasquith]

Excellent thread, thank you .

[allenlondon]

Karl: many thanks for your answer, which goes as far as is probably possible in explaining the current position. Thank you.

I have a foolish belief that one day humanity will look upon these centuries as shameful, and a cause for tears rather than celebration - on all sides.


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Zacs-'Master'. I really do get fed up with your sarcasm and superciliousness. I wonder if others do, too.

[Baldric]

Poilu is French Infantry and Grunt is generally accepted as North American.

[allenlondon]

PP. Maybe the noun you sought was squaddies, rather than Tommies. Squaddies seem to cover most soldiers in most conflicts.

Do you know that after some first world war battle hospital orderlies went among the dying, and the only way they could tell Russian from German was the language in which they cried 'mother!' Some scoff. I cry.

A

[retrocop]

Avatar Image Peter Pedant
// Many Japanese lied to their families about running POW Camps, it was the lowest of the low.//

Most of the brutality carried out in the camps were from Korean guards who were allied to the Japanease. Similar to the Lithuanian and slavic guards who ran the German Concentration camps.
I read the Knights of Bushido at an early age. Probably the same time as 'The Jungle is Neutral'.
At the young age of about 11years I considered the Japanese an evil,sadistic and perverted people. My opinion has not altered to this day.
You only have to watch their perverse ,sadistic,cruel 'game shows' on TV to see that even in this modern day inflicting pain and suffering is their method of entertainment. Leopards don't change their spots it would seem.

[allenlondon]

I am saddened, although not surprised, by the trotting out of all the old cliches, because while some of the observations might be true, they're not going to help us move on from the 'nasty little nips' myth that many of us grew up with.

We must judge each other on the best that we can be, not the worst.

[mushroom25]

//We must judge each other on the best that we can be, not the worst. //

sadly, humanity has a habit of disappointing the optimist.