Fired For Refusing Poppies?

[mushroom25]

https://www.bbc.com/news/uk-england-birmingham-46078099

that's how the headline reads - but it's not how it was reported on TV last night, nor indeed is it said in the text of the article. The police are investigating not the refusal, but threats made after the event. and the driver wasn't dismissed for refusing to transport poppies, but for falsifying his job card.

all very strange, eh?

[jackthehat]

///war is a futile exercise...///

That was also the view of Harry Patch who also pointed out that after the mud, blood and waste of (young) life, all wars end with a group of men talking round a table...

[ToraToraTora]

so we just surrender then??

[mushroom25]

//so we just surrender to an aggressor do we? Right oh! //

at the risk of derailing my own thread (and of invoking Godwin's Law), that is precisely what the UK National Government almost did in May 1940:-
http://www.bbc.co.uk/history/events/churchill_decides_to_fight_on

but the cabinet were persuaded and the UK fought on - and only a short few months later that decision had already cost the lives of 300,000 Brits. whether any modern-day politician would be brave enough to make such a decision again, knowing the possible consequences, might be worthy of its own debate.

[hereIam]

Of course wars are futile, I should imagine any sane person thinks that! I agree with Harry Patch, but we can't just surrender and let the aggressors walk all over us - can we ???

[jackthehat]

///so we just surrender then?? ///

Where has anyone said that, for heaven's sake? Stop getting quite so hysterical....

[Peter Pedant]

// The media are really good at slanting facts to make them appear very different than they actually are.
//

and there are posters on AB who Do the Same - they Know Who They Are ! - sort of makes you read the article carefully tho'

really dignified answer or comment from the british legion

[Peter Pedant]

Invoking Godwins Law - both the Germans and Japanese fought on beyond reason and belief - because they thought the Russians would massacre them ( true ) or the Americans ( false)

The French and Belgians dont do this
and we fought mainly on their soil !

[Peter Pedant]

.// (1940) and only a short few months later that decision had already cost the lives of 300,000 Brits.//
er where ? in the later months of 1940 Brits did very little except run away a lot.

by 1945
Total war related deaths reported by the Commonwealth War Graves Commission: UK and Crown Colonies (383,786);

so that only leaves 80k to die 1941-5

Nothing like the Great War - 700 000 British dead.

of course this is peanuts compared to Russia - 29 000 000 dead
or in proportion - german submarines
"You dont have to lose 60% of your men before you say the strategy isnt working" Doenitz had a good war but the historians have not been kind to him

[Togo]

///war is a futile exercise...///
////That was also the view of Harry Patch////


Who was trotted out to make a documentary when 90 odd years old at the time. You know one of those stupid ignorant old people that the luvvies hold in such contempt, and treat with scorn when it suits their purpose. Meehh.

[jackthehat]

Harry Patch had great dignity and humanity and was already at an advanced age before he decided to speak about the horrors he witnessed.

I don't know quite who you suppose treats older people as stupid, ignorant or contemptible.....

[Mamyalynne]

People like Harry and there were many, lived it,felt it and breathed it - I have no contempt for their views.

Harry even called the annual Remembrance period 'Showbusiness', and he was entitled to that view.

Everyone has an opinion.

[Mamyalynne]

Peter makes a good point above too - year on year some story about a Poppy related incident rears its head - meltdown ensues.

RBL are always dignified and calm in response, a lot to learn there.

[KARL]

.....and I blasphemed. By the way, who would say: Aren't Muslims being rather primitive when screaming "Blasphemer - kill him" when they so easily take offense ?

Is the "poppy" an anti-war, anti-military symbol - no it is not (unless I have completely misunderstood). At best it is a "necessary evil, pity about the (glorious) fallen" token although for far too many it borders on being a celebratory statement, one which I find close to being offensive. When that changes I shall change my opinion.

[Togo]

Harry Patch earned the right to have an opinion. He was there and watched his pals die for our freedom. What he didn't deserve is to have his reflective, and poignant, words seized upon and used by a generation who think that dressing up is a substitute for real substance in an attempt to belittle his and his comrades sacrifices.

[ToraToraTora]

ok so can someone tell me what we do instead of surrendering to a potential aggressor, I'd really like to know. Usual waffle above.

[Togo]

It gets better TTT. Talk about betrayal. That 1914/18 conflict that was all about protecting the "Neutrality" of Belgium and cost Britain millions of lives. Well the Germans were right when they couldn't comprehend why Great Britain would go to war "over a little bit of paper". Perhaps we would like a rewind and remake the decision when.....

""The chief of police in the Flemish municipality of Kruibeke has questioned why he should keep migrants from travelling to the UK when they do not want to remain in Belgium. Already in August, police chief Wim Pieteraerens said that his officers would not seek to detain migrants who were travelling through his country and instead only took their fingerprint information before letting them go. Now, according to Pieteraerens, the situation has further deteriorated, with more migrants arriving and becoming more determined to reach Britain, RTL reports.
“Migrants in transit do not want to stay here and we do not want them either, maybe it’s a bit of a short-term solutioon, but why do not we let them go to England?” Pieteraerens asked.""

Remember how they scoffed when some of us pointed out that the EUSSR had a covert plan to funnel every illegal immigrant over to us?

Lest we forget? Tell Pieteraerens to take a walk around the war dead cemeteries out there.

[ToraToraTora]

bang on Togo, but I'm still waiting for the "war is futile" brigade to tell me what the alternative is when the panzers are rolling our way. I assume they want us to surrender and hope the Nazis are not too bad.

[retrocop]

TTT. I note a couple of the 'war is futile' brigade profess to having past and present close ties with the MOD. Yes war is futile but (a)should they not support their loved one's efforts and (b)why do they proudly proclaim their loved one's efforts? No point in defending Queen and Country if you are not prepared for the chance of dying. God forbid a family loved one is lost but I would like to think my Grand father will always be remembered for his sacrifice in the Dardanelles

[jackthehat]

War *is* futile......which is not the same as saying it is 'unjustified'.

[ToraToraTora]

yes retro, From the Futile brigade I'm looking for the alternative. Hitler is running through Europe with the panzers, do we simply do nothing and accept what is imposed on the basis that someone may die defending the country? Still waiting.....