Crosswords1 min ago
Can We Have Some Answers Please?
148 Answers
Why are the Left not concerned about mass immigration and the detrimental effect on our infrastructure, the invasion of Europe, the threat of Islam on our culture, the increase in knife crime, and the changing face of Britain?
Others can add to this list if they wish.
Others can add to this list if they wish.
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Gromit...you are correct !
All those right-wingers that were crowing so loudly after the Election, seem to have voted for a Party that is doing exactly the opposite of what they would ideally have wanted.
Vote Tory....get more immigrants ! Simples !
I wonder how many of them now realise their mistake ?
All those right-wingers that were crowing so loudly after the Election, seem to have voted for a Party that is doing exactly the opposite of what they would ideally have wanted.
Vote Tory....get more immigrants ! Simples !
I wonder how many of them now realise their mistake ?
Zacs...the only alternative to a Tory regime is a Labour victory. Its never been any different for as long as anybody can remember.
A Labour victory might not be perfect but its better than this omni-shambles that we have to have today.....Doctors about to go on strike, national debt rising, attacks of working people...... An indecisive PM and a Chancellor that is still reeling from a defeat in the House of Lords...the House of Lords mind you, not the TUC !
A Labour victory might not be perfect but its better than this omni-shambles that we have to have today.....Doctors about to go on strike, national debt rising, attacks of working people...... An indecisive PM and a Chancellor that is still reeling from a defeat in the House of Lords...the House of Lords mind you, not the TUC !
I'm interested that New Judge equates a small riot in Malmo with Sweden's economy buckling, and that small town eastern Germany reacting badly to outsiders is something new.
This discussion is showing an interesting trend, namely a small number of posters with extreme opinions repeatedly saying, effectively, 'agree with me because if you don't you're stupid and a traitor'.
Followed by general unpleasantness targeted at individuals.
Kromovaracun made some interesting comments well worth further discussion, and is one of a few not focusing on hating difference as the mainstay of their argument.
This discussion is showing an interesting trend, namely a small number of posters with extreme opinions repeatedly saying, effectively, 'agree with me because if you don't you're stupid and a traitor'.
Followed by general unpleasantness targeted at individuals.
Kromovaracun made some interesting comments well worth further discussion, and is one of a few not focusing on hating difference as the mainstay of their argument.
mikey4444
/// Orderlimit...what is "unbelievable" ?.....that immigration has hugely increased since we have had a Tory PM in Number Ten ? ///
That may be correct, but imagine what the numbers would have been if a Labour government had got into power?
Apart from that, since you lot praise the virtues of a multi racial, multi cultural country, you should be praising the Tories, instead of trying to gain political points.
/// Orderlimit...what is "unbelievable" ?.....that immigration has hugely increased since we have had a Tory PM in Number Ten ? ///
That may be correct, but imagine what the numbers would have been if a Labour government had got into power?
Apart from that, since you lot praise the virtues of a multi racial, multi cultural country, you should be praising the Tories, instead of trying to gain political points.
Possibly because, Mosaic, the OP invited just that sort of discussion by stating, as if it were a fact, that "the left" didn't care. And this was picked up near the start by those also wishing to score points over "the left"; which made this thread less worth adding sensible responses to.
But since you feel that Kromovaracun made some interesting comments here's an opinion of them.
"Because I think taken as a whole, the pros of mass immigration outweigh the cons."
I don't believe that for a moment. In an overcrowded country migration is all con; no pro.
"I don't think Europe is being invaded"
Difficult to see why a mass movement of people to a country not their own should not be considered an invasion. It may not be military but that's not a criteria.
"don't see Islam itself as an existential threat per se"
Fair enough, except that there is an element that comes with that religion that means places where it hasn't already got a foothold could well do without the problem.
"left care about crime"
Fair enough. I feel this issue has increased with recent increased immigration, as has the acceptance of firearms, but this is before the mass invasion of late.
"the changing face of Britain to be innately anything to be concerned about"
Too much too soon. Older folk no longer feel they are in their own country. They are likely to feel uncomfortable like a guest in a place when they wish to be in the place they knew. During a lifetime the country hasn't simply gained a simple flavour of foreign culture, as things gradually change; it is quite obvious, and some think it may well become dominant. Some have no issue with change, others like/need stability, and familiarity in their home and country.
But since you feel that Kromovaracun made some interesting comments here's an opinion of them.
"Because I think taken as a whole, the pros of mass immigration outweigh the cons."
I don't believe that for a moment. In an overcrowded country migration is all con; no pro.
"I don't think Europe is being invaded"
Difficult to see why a mass movement of people to a country not their own should not be considered an invasion. It may not be military but that's not a criteria.
"don't see Islam itself as an existential threat per se"
Fair enough, except that there is an element that comes with that religion that means places where it hasn't already got a foothold could well do without the problem.
"left care about crime"
Fair enough. I feel this issue has increased with recent increased immigration, as has the acceptance of firearms, but this is before the mass invasion of late.
"the changing face of Britain to be innately anything to be concerned about"
Too much too soon. Older folk no longer feel they are in their own country. They are likely to feel uncomfortable like a guest in a place when they wish to be in the place they knew. During a lifetime the country hasn't simply gained a simple flavour of foreign culture, as things gradually change; it is quite obvious, and some think it may well become dominant. Some have no issue with change, others like/need stability, and familiarity in their home and country.
Amazing over 100 replies but not one from the Left answering my question.
This one from Mosaic is a typical answer that we have received.
/// It's fascinating to witness a mass population movement - these have happened periodically across time, and this just seems to be one of those times.
Many mass population movements in the past have also attracted fears but it just - settles down - after time passes. Changes happens ///
It is a good job her grandparents (that is if she is indeed British) did not think the same prior to WW2. If they had then Hitler and the German people need not have spent all that cash on Aeroplanes, Tanks, guns and uniforms etc, etc, all they had to do was to pick up sticks and wander freely across Europe, got in their rubber dingies and crossed the channel.
Yes it might have attracted fears from some quarters at the time, but no fears according to Mosaic, it just settles down after time passes. Changes happen.
That was the whole point which made thousands lay down their lives, they didn't want to see those changes happen, and who can blame them, except some on here it would seem?
This one from Mosaic is a typical answer that we have received.
/// It's fascinating to witness a mass population movement - these have happened periodically across time, and this just seems to be one of those times.
Many mass population movements in the past have also attracted fears but it just - settles down - after time passes. Changes happens ///
It is a good job her grandparents (that is if she is indeed British) did not think the same prior to WW2. If they had then Hitler and the German people need not have spent all that cash on Aeroplanes, Tanks, guns and uniforms etc, etc, all they had to do was to pick up sticks and wander freely across Europe, got in their rubber dingies and crossed the channel.
Yes it might have attracted fears from some quarters at the time, but no fears according to Mosaic, it just settles down after time passes. Changes happen.
That was the whole point which made thousands lay down their lives, they didn't want to see those changes happen, and who can blame them, except some on here it would seem?
"I don't believe that for a moment. In an overcrowded country migration is all con; no pro. "
I don't know if you'd call yourself right wing, OG, but yes, I think that's probably the main issue which separates people on the left with people on the right (as well as attitudes to welfare). Obviously, I think that's too simplistic. Going into it in huge amounts of detail here will probably produce pages of very long responses though.
"Difficult to see why a mass movement of people to a country not their own should not be considered an invasion. It may not be military but that's not a criteria."
Well, if your definition of "invasion" just people moving from one country to another - then I'd say that the "invasion" just doesn't particularly scare me. But I don't really share the premise. Because when you're talking about invasion - the key thing you mean is hostility. I don't think the mass of people coming into Europe are doing it out of hostility. I also don't think any more than a handful of them care about taking over our ruling institutions. If they're invaders, they are the worst invaders ever. They come in and pick our fruit and work in our public services, but overwhelmingly ignore the things that actually govern our society. That's not what invaders do... unless, of course, you intend the word to only mean people who just move from one place to another regardless of how or why they do it. In which case, checkmate. You got me.
I don't significantly disagree with your comments about Islam and crime. There's dangerous elements to Islam, and when you allow immigration, you're always unavoidably going to let a certain number of dangerous people into the country. Can't disagree with that.
"Older folk no longer feel they are in their own country. They are likely to feel uncomfortable like a guest in a place when they wish to be in the place they knew. During a lifetime the country hasn't simply gained a simple flavour of foreign culture, as things gradually change; it is quite obvious, and some think it may well become dominant. Some have no issue with change, others like/need stability, and familiarity in their home and country."
I wouldn't know, I'm not an old man. But, being honest, I don't really think government policy on these things should be informed by how comfortable the elderly feel in their country. When you say "some people like change, others need stability"... well, so what? The government shouldn't be trying to appease either one of those peoples' feelings, it should be trying to make good policy. I suspect you probably think that it isn't doing that. On many issues, I'd probably agree with you. But I don't judge the success of a government's immigration policy on how happy the elderly feel.
I don't know if you'd call yourself right wing, OG, but yes, I think that's probably the main issue which separates people on the left with people on the right (as well as attitudes to welfare). Obviously, I think that's too simplistic. Going into it in huge amounts of detail here will probably produce pages of very long responses though.
"Difficult to see why a mass movement of people to a country not their own should not be considered an invasion. It may not be military but that's not a criteria."
Well, if your definition of "invasion" just people moving from one country to another - then I'd say that the "invasion" just doesn't particularly scare me. But I don't really share the premise. Because when you're talking about invasion - the key thing you mean is hostility. I don't think the mass of people coming into Europe are doing it out of hostility. I also don't think any more than a handful of them care about taking over our ruling institutions. If they're invaders, they are the worst invaders ever. They come in and pick our fruit and work in our public services, but overwhelmingly ignore the things that actually govern our society. That's not what invaders do... unless, of course, you intend the word to only mean people who just move from one place to another regardless of how or why they do it. In which case, checkmate. You got me.
I don't significantly disagree with your comments about Islam and crime. There's dangerous elements to Islam, and when you allow immigration, you're always unavoidably going to let a certain number of dangerous people into the country. Can't disagree with that.
"Older folk no longer feel they are in their own country. They are likely to feel uncomfortable like a guest in a place when they wish to be in the place they knew. During a lifetime the country hasn't simply gained a simple flavour of foreign culture, as things gradually change; it is quite obvious, and some think it may well become dominant. Some have no issue with change, others like/need stability, and familiarity in their home and country."
I wouldn't know, I'm not an old man. But, being honest, I don't really think government policy on these things should be informed by how comfortable the elderly feel in their country. When you say "some people like change, others need stability"... well, so what? The government shouldn't be trying to appease either one of those peoples' feelings, it should be trying to make good policy. I suspect you probably think that it isn't doing that. On many issues, I'd probably agree with you. But I don't judge the success of a government's immigration policy on how happy the elderly feel.
Kromovaracun
I apologise when I earlier said no one from the Left had answered my question, I have only just come across your answer, and thank you for your interesting views.
The only criticism that I have to make is that you had to spoil it all by your insulting 'Teenager' remark in your last paragraph, totally uncalled for in my opinion.
I apologise when I earlier said no one from the Left had answered my question, I have only just come across your answer, and thank you for your interesting views.
The only criticism that I have to make is that you had to spoil it all by your insulting 'Teenager' remark in your last paragraph, totally uncalled for in my opinion.
I consider myself slightly left of centre overall, prioritising fair play and aiding each other over wealth attraction at any cost: but I see common ground on one side or the other depending on the issue. I have always been concerned about overpopulation, both for the planet, and in my own country where we ought to be in control at least. There is not the resources for taking in excessive population from elsewhere on top of the number of folk we already have.
Government policy should be made taking the well being of the individual citizens into account. Its reason for existence is to make life better for the citizens. And as a representative democracy it ought not be doing anything opposed to that.
Government policy should be made taking the well being of the individual citizens into account. Its reason for existence is to make life better for the citizens. And as a representative democracy it ought not be doing anything opposed to that.
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