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Do I Have to Believe Evolution?
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Well,For 116 years it graced the halls of the National Museum of Wales at Cardiff—the fossilised skeleton of a 200m[illion]-year-old predator that once cruised the Jurassic seas,” says Britain’s newspaper The Guardian. “Then curators at Cardiff decided the remains of the ocean-going carnivore ichthyosaurus needed a brush up—and realised that they had been taken in.” “When we stripped off five layers of paint we found it was an elaborate forgery,” said conservator Caroline Buttler. “It was an amalgam of two types of ichthyosaurus plus a clever attempt at fake parts.” Instead of disposing of it, the museum will put it on display as an example of a fake fossil.
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Yes,those who profess to believe in evolution and evolution are likewise without a solidly based hope. They say that evolution as a means to produce all the living things on this globe. But, in so doing, they reject the Bible. Without it as a guide, they have no revelation of the divine will. They do not know why they are here, what moral standard should guide them, or what the future holds. Asked to give reasons for what they champion as moral, they have only their own opinion to which to turn, and that is molded by the society in which they live.—Jer. 8:9.
Elderman -
“Is evolution a scientific fact? No.” - Yes it is. In so far as any scientific theory can be called a 'fact'. It has been proven far and beyond a reasonable doubt and therefore it can be accurately described as both a theory and a fact.
“Is it a testable scientific theory? No.” - Yes it is. It is testable in a number of ways. DNA sequencing being one. More importantly, it can be proven wrong as I have explained in an earlier post which leads to...
“Does it adhere to the scientific method? No.” - Yes it does. The scientific method (as if you'd care) proposes that a hypothesis be suggested and tests carried out to see if the observed results of that hypothesis are confirmed or denied. Evolution is testable and the observed evidence does indeed fit the hypothesis. The theory of evolution is not just confirmed by biology but by geology, palaeontology, anthropology, astronomy, genetics, physics, chemistry, to name but a few.
“You really don't have a clue do you?” - Talking to yourself again eh?
“Is evolution a scientific fact? No.” - Yes it is. In so far as any scientific theory can be called a 'fact'. It has been proven far and beyond a reasonable doubt and therefore it can be accurately described as both a theory and a fact.
“Is it a testable scientific theory? No.” - Yes it is. It is testable in a number of ways. DNA sequencing being one. More importantly, it can be proven wrong as I have explained in an earlier post which leads to...
“Does it adhere to the scientific method? No.” - Yes it does. The scientific method (as if you'd care) proposes that a hypothesis be suggested and tests carried out to see if the observed results of that hypothesis are confirmed or denied. Evolution is testable and the observed evidence does indeed fit the hypothesis. The theory of evolution is not just confirmed by biology but by geology, palaeontology, anthropology, astronomy, genetics, physics, chemistry, to name but a few.
“You really don't have a clue do you?” - Talking to yourself again eh?
Elderman -
You further say, “... They [atheists, who do not have the bible to guide them] do not know why they are here, what moral standard should guide them, or what the future holds...”
This old chestnut again! You bible bashers do like to claim that the 'good book' is some kind of 'moral spring' from which all morals and values are derived. This is plainly nonsense. As an example, take this passage from Ephesians 6:5-9 (New International Version) -
“Slaves, obey your earthly masters with respect and fear, and with sincerity of heart, just as you would obey Christ. Obey them not only to win their favor [sic] when their eye is on you, but as slaves of Christ, doing the will of God from your heart. Serve wholeheartedly, as if you were serving the Lord, not people, because you know that the Lord will reward each one for whatever good they do, whether they are slave or free.”
However sympathetically the above passage is read, it is clear that the bible endorses the concept of slavery. If the bible endorses slavery, do you Elderman, think that slavery is moral and good? I assume that you do not think this, which begs the question, from where does you morality on slavery come from if not the bible? The bible also has nothing to say on the subject of child abuse (it could be argued quite legitimately that Genesis 22 contains a story of child abuse par excellence). I assume that you also do not approve of ceremoniously strapping children on to the top of bonfires and threatening to murder them?
By suggesting that all morality springs from the pages of the bible, you are wantonly and spuriously suggesting that without biblical teachings, people will be inherently immoral. This nauseatingly simplistic viewpoint ignores the fact that a great many civilisations existed before Jesus and the bible ever did. Even if we take the most extreme view that the earth was created in 2004 BC, that still means that the ancient Egyptians and Greeks had moral codes that were analogous to our own as they too believed that murder, stealing, adultery, telling lies and greed were all immoral practises.
I put it to you Elderman, that some of your morals and values have been shaped and moulded by biblical teachings, but they do not originate from those teachings. If you derive all of your morality from the bible's pages then you would see no problem with slavery nor child abuse. The fact that you don't approve of these things demonstrates that morality is a far more complicated issue than simply ascribing it to biblical teachings.
You further say, “... They [atheists, who do not have the bible to guide them] do not know why they are here, what moral standard should guide them, or what the future holds...”
This old chestnut again! You bible bashers do like to claim that the 'good book' is some kind of 'moral spring' from which all morals and values are derived. This is plainly nonsense. As an example, take this passage from Ephesians 6:5-9 (New International Version) -
“Slaves, obey your earthly masters with respect and fear, and with sincerity of heart, just as you would obey Christ. Obey them not only to win their favor [sic] when their eye is on you, but as slaves of Christ, doing the will of God from your heart. Serve wholeheartedly, as if you were serving the Lord, not people, because you know that the Lord will reward each one for whatever good they do, whether they are slave or free.”
However sympathetically the above passage is read, it is clear that the bible endorses the concept of slavery. If the bible endorses slavery, do you Elderman, think that slavery is moral and good? I assume that you do not think this, which begs the question, from where does you morality on slavery come from if not the bible? The bible also has nothing to say on the subject of child abuse (it could be argued quite legitimately that Genesis 22 contains a story of child abuse par excellence). I assume that you also do not approve of ceremoniously strapping children on to the top of bonfires and threatening to murder them?
By suggesting that all morality springs from the pages of the bible, you are wantonly and spuriously suggesting that without biblical teachings, people will be inherently immoral. This nauseatingly simplistic viewpoint ignores the fact that a great many civilisations existed before Jesus and the bible ever did. Even if we take the most extreme view that the earth was created in 2004 BC, that still means that the ancient Egyptians and Greeks had moral codes that were analogous to our own as they too believed that murder, stealing, adultery, telling lies and greed were all immoral practises.
I put it to you Elderman, that some of your morals and values have been shaped and moulded by biblical teachings, but they do not originate from those teachings. If you derive all of your morality from the bible's pages then you would see no problem with slavery nor child abuse. The fact that you don't approve of these things demonstrates that morality is a far more complicated issue than simply ascribing it to biblical teachings.
“really, you don't have a clue do you?” – Yes your talking to yourself again’
Is it not much wiser to view DNA as having an intelligent Designer? People with such a viewpoint realize that in time the reasons for puzzling aspects of God’s handiwork usually come to light. And instead of disillusioning them, such findings fill them with even greater awe.
All researchers approach the study of biology, genetics, and related fields from the standpoint of the theory of evolution. Often, this view has led them to false conclusions. For example, early Darwinists classified certain organs, such as the appendix, the pituitary gland, and the tonsils, as vestigial. They considered them to be evolutionary leftovers because these organs seemed no longer to have any function. In time, however, the important role of these organs came to light. Evolutionists, therefore, had to discard their earlier views.
Is it not much wiser to view DNA as having an intelligent Designer? People with such a viewpoint realize that in time the reasons for puzzling aspects of God’s handiwork usually come to light. And instead of disillusioning them, such findings fill them with even greater awe.
All researchers approach the study of biology, genetics, and related fields from the standpoint of the theory of evolution. Often, this view has led them to false conclusions. For example, early Darwinists classified certain organs, such as the appendix, the pituitary gland, and the tonsils, as vestigial. They considered them to be evolutionary leftovers because these organs seemed no longer to have any function. In time, however, the important role of these organs came to light. Evolutionists, therefore, had to discard their earlier views.
The Bible states that “man has dominated man to his injury.” (Ecclesiastes 8:9) This is perhaps nowhere more evident than in the oppressive forms of slavery that have been devised by man. God is not indifferent to the suffering that slavery has wrought.
Clearly, God did not approve of ‘man dominating man’ through abusive slavery. But did not God later allow slavery among his people? Yes, he did. However, the slavery that existed in Israel was vastly different from the tyrannical forms of slavery that have existed throughout history.
God’s Law stated that kidnapping and selling a human was punishable by death. Furthermore, God provided guidelines to protect slaves. For example, a slave who was maimed by his master would be set free. If a slave died because his master beat him, the master could be punished with death. Women captives could become slaves, or they could be taken as wives. But they were not to be used for mere sexual gratification. The gist of the Law must have led right hearted Israelites to treat slaves with respect and kindness, as if these were hired labourers. (Exodus 20:10; 21:12, 16, 26, 27)
So clearly, the Bible does not condone the ill-treatment of others in any form. On the contrary, it encourages respect and equality among men. (Acts 10:34, 35) It exhorts humans to treat others the way that they would like to be treated. (Luke 6:31) Moreover, the Bible encourages Christians humbly to view others as superior, regardless of their social standing. (Philippians 2:3) These principles are totally incongruous with abusive forms of slavery practiced by many nations, especially in recent centuries. So you can take bits and pieces out of the Bible and twist it how you like but overall it is not the true understanding of the Bible. This is one way you can tell between true Christians and false Christians because they do not twist the scriptures.
Clearly, God did not approve of ‘man dominating man’ through abusive slavery. But did not God later allow slavery among his people? Yes, he did. However, the slavery that existed in Israel was vastly different from the tyrannical forms of slavery that have existed throughout history.
God’s Law stated that kidnapping and selling a human was punishable by death. Furthermore, God provided guidelines to protect slaves. For example, a slave who was maimed by his master would be set free. If a slave died because his master beat him, the master could be punished with death. Women captives could become slaves, or they could be taken as wives. But they were not to be used for mere sexual gratification. The gist of the Law must have led right hearted Israelites to treat slaves with respect and kindness, as if these were hired labourers. (Exodus 20:10; 21:12, 16, 26, 27)
So clearly, the Bible does not condone the ill-treatment of others in any form. On the contrary, it encourages respect and equality among men. (Acts 10:34, 35) It exhorts humans to treat others the way that they would like to be treated. (Luke 6:31) Moreover, the Bible encourages Christians humbly to view others as superior, regardless of their social standing. (Philippians 2:3) These principles are totally incongruous with abusive forms of slavery practiced by many nations, especially in recent centuries. So you can take bits and pieces out of the Bible and twist it how you like but overall it is not the true understanding of the Bible. This is one way you can tell between true Christians and false Christians because they do not twist the scriptures.
And you don't twist the Bible quotations, Elderman.....
We have proven that time and time again and I have better things to do than pick through your recent quotations as I need to get some writing advanced a wee bit.
Thank, therefore, for admitting that you are not a true Christian. At least that point is cleared up.
And have a great relaxing Sunday, your so-called "day of rest." You shouldn't be preaching by the way, unless you are a qualified priest and at least not on here.
We have proven that time and time again and I have better things to do than pick through your recent quotations as I need to get some writing advanced a wee bit.
Thank, therefore, for admitting that you are not a true Christian. At least that point is cleared up.
And have a great relaxing Sunday, your so-called "day of rest." You shouldn't be preaching by the way, unless you are a qualified priest and at least not on here.
"Scrioture twisting" is what is done by the believers by completely ignoring the passages they don't like. Taken at face value the Bible is a handbook of prejudice and bigotry and directly encouraged many horrible acts of cruelty and hate throughout history.
Everything Eldeman says refers back to this stupid book as though it holds special knowlledge when it is acutally the musing of bigotted old misogynist men with a narrow world view shaped by stoneage beliefs.
The Bible is one of the worst books ever written and those who respect it are deluded fools.
Everything Eldeman says refers back to this stupid book as though it holds special knowlledge when it is acutally the musing of bigotted old misogynist men with a narrow world view shaped by stoneage beliefs.
The Bible is one of the worst books ever written and those who respect it are deluded fools.
The teaching of evolution is not designed to build faith in God. It does not encourage one to view the Bible with deep respect. So it comes as a surprise to some persons If you are a person who believes in the Creator, you are not left in the dark as to the origin of the universe. That is not an issue that has to be dodged. You can with conviction quote the explanation in the first words of the Bible. (Gen. 1:1) And you can confidently point to both heavens and earth as overwhelming evidence that they are, indeed, the work of One who is almighty, One whose knowledge and wisdom far exceed that of any man.
You need a course in Anger Management obviously Elderman.
Number 1 you have not read my books - unless you are of a military persuasion.
So let's begin in your very own backyard.
Angry people like you usually justify their anger, saying it's someone else's fault they are angry. Yet the Bible repeatedly warns you against giving in to anger when we are upset by other people's words or actions.
There is such a thing as righteous anger. And sometimes we need to talk about problems or deal with dangerous situations. (Even at these times, we must exercise self-control.) Yet most of the time, your anger is not righteous. As James wrote, "Man's anger does not bring about the righteous life that God desires" (James 1:20).
When you, Elderman, give in to anger, you often focus on your own welfare, comfort or happiness. Instead, you should be primarily concerned about other people’s welfare and being a good witness for God.
As you can see in the following Scriptures, God does not want you to simply react emotionally to others' actions. Instead, you should respond with wisdom and a gentle spirit.
Verses warning you about anger:
Refrain from anger and turn from wrath; do not fret-it leads only to evil (Psalm 37:8).
A fool shows his annoyance at once, but a prudent man overlooks an insult (Proverbs 12:16).
Reckless words pierce like a sword, but the tongue of the wise brings healing (Proverbs 12:18).
A wise man fears the Lord and shuns evil, but a fool is hotheaded and reckless (Proverbs 14:16
A quick-tempered man does foolish things, and a crafty man is hated (Proverbs 14:17).
A patient man has great understanding, but a quick-tempered man displays folly (Proverbs 14:29).
A gentle answer turns away wrath, but a harsh word stirs up anger (Proverbs 15:1).
A hot-tempered man stirs up dissension, but a patient man calms a quarrel (Proverbs 15:18).
Better a patient man than a warrior, a man who controls his temper than one who takes a city (Proverbs 16:32).
A man of knowledge uses words with restraint, and a man of understanding is even-tempered (Proverbs 17:27).
It is to a man's honor to avoid strife, but every fool is quick to quarrel (Proverbs 20:3).
Do not say, "I'll pay you back for this wrong!" Wait for the LORD, and he will deliver you (Proverbs 20:22).
Like a city whose walls are broken down is a man who lacks self-control (Proverbs 25:28).
Mockers stir up a city, but wise men turn away anger (Proverbs 29:8).
A fool gives full vent to his anger, but a wise man keeps himself under control (Proverbs 29:11).
So I suggest you duly contemplate and meditate before making such crass remarks as you have just done.
Number 1 you have not read my books - unless you are of a military persuasion.
So let's begin in your very own backyard.
Angry people like you usually justify their anger, saying it's someone else's fault they are angry. Yet the Bible repeatedly warns you against giving in to anger when we are upset by other people's words or actions.
There is such a thing as righteous anger. And sometimes we need to talk about problems or deal with dangerous situations. (Even at these times, we must exercise self-control.) Yet most of the time, your anger is not righteous. As James wrote, "Man's anger does not bring about the righteous life that God desires" (James 1:20).
When you, Elderman, give in to anger, you often focus on your own welfare, comfort or happiness. Instead, you should be primarily concerned about other people’s welfare and being a good witness for God.
As you can see in the following Scriptures, God does not want you to simply react emotionally to others' actions. Instead, you should respond with wisdom and a gentle spirit.
Verses warning you about anger:
Refrain from anger and turn from wrath; do not fret-it leads only to evil (Psalm 37:8).
A fool shows his annoyance at once, but a prudent man overlooks an insult (Proverbs 12:16).
Reckless words pierce like a sword, but the tongue of the wise brings healing (Proverbs 12:18).
A wise man fears the Lord and shuns evil, but a fool is hotheaded and reckless (Proverbs 14:16
A quick-tempered man does foolish things, and a crafty man is hated (Proverbs 14:17).
A patient man has great understanding, but a quick-tempered man displays folly (Proverbs 14:29).
A gentle answer turns away wrath, but a harsh word stirs up anger (Proverbs 15:1).
A hot-tempered man stirs up dissension, but a patient man calms a quarrel (Proverbs 15:18).
Better a patient man than a warrior, a man who controls his temper than one who takes a city (Proverbs 16:32).
A man of knowledge uses words with restraint, and a man of understanding is even-tempered (Proverbs 17:27).
It is to a man's honor to avoid strife, but every fool is quick to quarrel (Proverbs 20:3).
Do not say, "I'll pay you back for this wrong!" Wait for the LORD, and he will deliver you (Proverbs 20:22).
Like a city whose walls are broken down is a man who lacks self-control (Proverbs 25:28).
Mockers stir up a city, but wise men turn away anger (Proverbs 29:8).
A fool gives full vent to his anger, but a wise man keeps himself under control (Proverbs 29:11).
So I suggest you duly contemplate and meditate before making such crass remarks as you have just done.
