ken bigley

[rick7]

Without wanting to appear totally callous. Why are these people working in foreign countries where most of the population regards them as over-paid lackeys of foreign imperialist power.

Has it got anything to do with their salaries being 10 times the domestic rate?

If you go for GREED then perhaps you don't have too much to complain about if your NEMESIS catches up with you at some stage in the operation 

[Dark Angel]

I'm not callous either but I just thought to myself, no amount of money is worth going out to a foreign country and risking your life.

[WaldoMcFroog]

As far as I am aware, Ken Bigley was genuinely out there to improve the infrastructure of the country, although I've no doubt he was paid well for doing so. I'm sure there are plenty of others too, but again, one has to bear in mind that the people getting these contracts are being vetted by the US. All of the major reconstrucion contracts went to US firms too, and they in turn maybe subcontracting more widely, and hence the Bigley's of this world. It's not being callous to suggest that anyone going out to Iraq should have the wherewithall to know that it's in a state of constant chaos and that your life would be at risk if you chose to do so.

The majority of the people claiming to be contractors are actually mercenries - *cough* - I mean 'Security advisors'. As such I have no sympathy for them whatsoever. You reep what you sow.

[slimjim]

So its ok for us to go and destroy a country and then leave it for the locals to build it all again is it? Why don't we have a responsibility to help the Iraqis rebuild their country? My job takes me abroad a lot of the time and I probably earn more than the local populace when in their countries, but that doesn't make it wrong. People should be free to pick what job they want - you sound like you're very jealous of people who earn good money.

[Drewhound]

We should be able to work where we like slimjim but there are often risks or hardships and the salaries compensate for those. If you were to contact the Foreign Office and ask if it were safe to holiday or work in Iraq they'd give their opinion and from then on it's your choice. He made his choice, he knew the risks, sadly he paid the ultimate price.

[FP]

Rick7,  I don't know if you ever saw my question posted earlier this month.  The debate here raised lots of comments regarding your issue:

 

http://www.theanswerbank.co.uk/News/Question67875.html

 

I, for one agree with you.  I also agree entirely with WaldoMcFroog.  I can assure you that I am not jealous of people earning loads of money in Iraq.  I also feel that most of the jobs should have gone to the Iraqees who have the skills to do them.

 

I certainly don't think you are callous at all.

[becks]

I don't think you're callous either, as said this had thrown up a lot of debate but i agree with you. Ken Bigley should have been enjoying his retirment in thailand, not going out there - whether he was actually helping the infrastructure or not makes no difference to me, no amount of money would make me go there. As a westerner Mr Bigley would have stood out, and if you look at the hostages that have been taken they are mainly white, and these terrorsists will attack anything that represents the west. Whether it was greed or not is debatable but as i've said you wouldn't catch me going there for a million squillion.

[slimjim]

I'm sorry but people are missing my point. I'm blaming a Government that goes to war against a country under dubious pretences, destroys said country and then doesn't put in place a decent re-building programme. Within that programme would be the employment of suitably skilled westerners like Mr Bigley (don't tell me that the Iraqis can do it all without outside expertise - that's rubbish). The programme should include suitable training on the dangers involved together with decent protection for the contractors. I doubt we'd ever see a British soldier being captured so why can't we give the same levels of protection to private individuals. I'm saying that Blair (and Bush) need to finish properly the job that they started. That means rebuilding Iraq as quickly and safely as possible.

[FP]

Point taken, Slimjim.  However, I would be interested to know if there really are not any suitably qualified Iraqees.  There seem to be lots of highly qualified Iraqees about in the Western world.  We have a tendancy to think that our skills in the West are highly superior and that our people are more intelligent.  I am not denying what you say might be true, I would just like some evidence.  I would also like evidence that it is only the 'top jobs' that are going to Westerners. 

Why are so many people going out there for employment offered by the Security Companies if it isn't for greed. 

[undercovers]

ken was out there for 7 years, that was where he lived, he didn't just go there when the war started to make a bundle of cash amidst everyone elses suffering.

SlimJim - why is it rubbish that the iraqis should be rebuilding the majority of their country themselves, if we have indeed liberated them from a dictator shouldn't we as quickly as possible return power and the ability to choose direction to these people. By rebuilding the country ourselves aren't we just esulating the general feeling that we have invaded and are now busy moulding a country that shares few of the same social and politcal customs and practices of the west into a distorted image of oursleves - thus drumming up bad feelings and giving rise to extremeist groups that could feel we are subverting their traditional way of life

[bernardo]

You have answered your own question.

 

The fact that Iraq has been in a war means that there are lots of jobs available in the re-construction area.  The number of people who are willing to do those jobs goes UP when the salary goes up, and goes DOWN when the danger increases.  The number of people willing to do such jobs depends on the amount of risk which each one is prepared to take on, and the pay available.  In other words, MARKET FORCES.

[slimjim]

I said they can't do it all without our help. We particularly have people skilled in modern project management techniques and modern construction techniques that they lack in Iraq. Also people who have contacts amongst the major suppliers. I still think they can do the majority of it themselves but we would be a poor nation if we sat back and let them do it alone. Also, don't confuse 'security' workers with the likes of Ken Bigley - very different argument.

[georgit79]

I agree to an extent, slimjim, but I don't think they do it for greed. Well, at least I don't think Ken Bigley did. As has already been posted, he lived out there for 7 years and it was, to all intents and purposes, his home.

I do, however, think that we need to protect these workers a lot more than we are doing. And I also wonder, just like you do, Fakeplastic, why Iraquis aren't doing the job.

[Octavius]

Could it be that the present Iraqi population are too scared to do these jobs as they woud be seen to be 'helping' the western infidels?  Isn't it fair to say that their fears of retribution from national extremists within the country are well-founded.  I have worked in Saudi, but I wouldn't work in Iraq as a westerner.

[slimjim]

georgit79, I think we're agreeing. I believe that Ken Bigley was not motivated by greed. He was just doing the same job that he'd been doing for some years. He was well paid and he was obviously paid what he was worth. We both agree that people like him should be afforded greater protection.

[slimjim]

rick7, are you saying that Margaret Hassan deserves to die too? Or does the fact that she is a charity worker make her life worth more than Ken Bigley's? She has been working in Iraq for years. Is she not seen as an over-paid lackey as well?

[david1969]

I agree.. Hey, I feel bad for all these abducted people, NO ONE, not even a criminal deserves to die like that(although, I might reconsider for someone like Bin Laden or the cowards that wear the masks and do the beheading), BUT these men are there to make money, they know the risks and they choose to stay there. No one is forcing them and YES that goes for people there doing humanitarian things. Luckly, like the Itialian women, these people have not been harmed yet, but you are dealing with animals. Don't assume because you are there doing kind deeds, you will be safe..

[falk123]

I agree with some points, and before anyone says i am not sympathetic, they are mistaken, i am very sympathetic with what happened.

However, His contracts were up, nothing more to do except to enjoy retirement, He knew the situation there, he knew what was happening there, he would also know, what could happen to him, as working under contract in those countries, you are told all possible occurrences that may or may not happen.

But, knowing all this, he still accepted the contract he was offered, with the thoughts that "this would make retirement more comfortable" ie. the extra money will come in handy, So in effect, yes it was the kidnappers fault he was taken hostage, But more of the fault lies with himself for being there in the first place, western or european people that are there under these sort of circumstances are in effect, giving kidnappers the opportunity to do what they do, If a company offered me a lot of money on a contract, im afraid i would put my family first depending on what country the contract was for, no amount of money is worth me to never be able to see my wife and son again, some things are worth more than money, and whatever people want to think, greed has a large part to play aswell.

Maybe it is very sad what happened, but there really is only one person to blame for his death, and that his himself for going back there in the first place. For me personally, if you knew what was happening in that area, its common sense to stay clear of it.