I Am Very Confused About The Greens...
News1 min ago
The hostage
I only hope this posting isn't too late. Tony Blair and his Government have made plenty of noises to say that they are doing everything they can to secure his release. What exactly are they doing? Do they really care? Is Tony losing any sleep over it? Yes, I know you could argue that he shouldn't have been in Iraq in the first place but we're supposed to be helping them rebuild their country. So why don't we protect the people who are helping the Iraqis? My father is the same age as Mr Bigley and I really feel for them. But I would be so angry at the Government if I was them.
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I think we should get the hell out of Iraq and stop supporting Israel ... but here's the rub, I also think all Muslims should be expelled from European soil - forcibly if necessary.
Don't get me wrong - anybody that can saw someone's head off "live" on the Internet has lost all claim to any human rights.
Me too, it makes me feel physically sick thinking about what they might be doing to human beings, especially hearing that the american they killed last night was sobbing, it too unbelievable for me to contemplate how someone could do this. Having said that giving in to terrorists demands will only incite them to do this again - if they don't get what they want they mightstop - however tragically i think it may be to save Mr Bigley as heart-breaking as it is. Personally i don't know why an old man would choose to go out there the risk is so high especially to westerners who look western ie white. A very sad state of affairs.
Oh dear Elipledge, expel all Muslims??? Is this because a MINORITY of them have committed criminal / terrorist acts. What about the Irish (IRA), the Germans (baader Meinhoff), the SPanish(ETA). Should these countries be thrown out of Europe as well? What about the eastenders like the Krays - should we bomb out the whole of the Eastend of London?
To be quite honest I think that your view (which of course you are entitled to have) is both racist and ignorant.
Pause * Breath *
But to answer the question - it is a bit one of those catch 22 questions - if we do protect Mr Bigley and cave in to the terrorist, all that will acheive is more terrorism. I to do feel angry with the goverment, and I am afraid that only history will be Tony Blairs judge. we went into this war unprepared (and if reports are to be believed he knew these consequences back then) and we are in a ludicrous situation.
Unfortunately giving in to hostage takers just encourages them to take more hostages. Iraq is a very large country and it wouldn't be possible to keep all civilian contractors in secure compounds as in may cases they would be too far away from their work to be effective. We also created the current mess and I think we should have to fix it.
And although I do feel sorry for Mr Bigley, is there any difference between him and if he were in the army? ie he knew there was trouble brewing, he was aware there is a kidnapping / killing risk. He chose to go (and I am fairly sure he got paid very well for this) and therefore should he not bear the consequences, in the same way that if a soldier gets shot, yes it is terribly sad but that is the job they signed up for.
Again just playing devil's advocate
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Of course one feels for the victim and his family in situations such as this, but - as Oneeyedvic says above - Mr Bigley understood fully the situation and almost certainly undertook to go there for the substantial financial rewards such risk-taking promises.
What could Tony Blair and his government do about it that they are not already doing? They have broadcast in Arabic on local TV stations appealing for information and I have no doubt that police and British security services in Iraq are frantically investigating the situation in the desparate hope that the hiding-place will be discovered and can be raided.
Should Mr Blair sit before a 24-hour TV camera so that we can all see that he is not getting a wink of sleep over it? Should he promise to carry out the demands of the animals who are holding Mr Bigley? Should he, therefore, invite several hundreds of other terrorists to kidnap the helpless in order to achieve their aims?
Personally, I think it is arrant nonsense to criticise Mr Blair, who doubtless feels as helpless as all the rest of us in this situation. Unlike our soldiers out there, no-one obliged Mr Bigley to go there...end of story. (I hope against hope, of course, that he comes out of it alive.)
What do I think Mr Blair should do? He should apologise to all Iraqis for crimes committed against them. He should distance himself from Mr Bush and make it clear that he believes they have done wrong. He should commit to withdrawing all Britons from Iraq (or at least those he has control over). He should ask George Bush or the Iraqi PM why these two women are being imprisoned without trial and promise the hijackers that he will do what he can to secure their release if they are not to be committed for trial. All of this may be too little to save Mr Bigley but why can't TB be a man for once and accept the responsibility for what he has done.
I agree aswell with quizmonster. Personally i am unhappy with the way the family of Bigley is putting so much pressure on Blair. Hes gon no real choice due to public pressure but to help him. when this man basically was in iraq for financial gain i dont see why the government should concede to protect someone who put their life at risk for money. All said though i feel for his family, it can hardly be a huge shock though with the other similar situations that have gone on.
Slimjim, Mr Blair has already stated - categorically, publicly, in the chamber of the House of Commons - that he does take full responsibility for this country's actions in Iraq. Hence, the wish you state in the last couple of lines of your response above has already been fully met. In addition, I utterly fail to see what fulfilling all your other wishes would achieve for Mr Bigley.
Thanks for the replies and I'm trying to appreciate the other points of view put here. But two points. Many of you make the statement about him being there out of choice and making good money for it. But if we are to rebuild a country that we destroyed, then we have to have such people out there. Shouldn't we do more to protect them? Also, Mr Blair may have publicly stated his level of responsibility but does anyone really believe him? If he had a conscience, we wouldn't have gone down this rocky road in the first place.
Slimjim you make a good point, however, it is businesses out there rebuilding the country, and businesses are there to make a profit. It is his employers who bear a responsibility for not protecting him, otherwise we would be in the ludicrous position of the British Army protecting civlians going out there ro make a profit.
I have never believed TB, and have also never voted for him. Unfortunately it is for the public to believe him or not and cast their vote accordingly next year.
Any British PM would be losing sleep over the situation. And not just because it 'looks good for the voters'. That's too cynical.
You asked what it is they would be doing. Right now they'll be working their asses off trying to find where this guy is being held. They'll be talking to informers and doing deals.
It isn't unprecedented for a British Government to meet terrorists' demand. In 1970 Leila Khaled, a palastinian hijacker, was released form British custody after the PLFP threatened to kill 40 hostages.
However, I think it would be insane for the government to work with these guys, for the reasons already mentioned above, and also because one of the women they want freed was Saddam's expert in biological weapons.
My final point: I think it's wrong to confuse this issue, which is is clear cut, with the murkier issue of whether we were right to go to war.
What are the Iraqis demands?? I really do not understand, it has been confirmed that there are no women being held in the Iraqi prisons of which the kidnappers claim. So how can we even meet their demands if this was an option? All they seem to want to do is to prove they can kill whenever they wish, without having any reason to do so. It has been confirmed that the second American is now dead. I find it completely disgusting that we have to sit back and wait until we hear that yet another hostage has been beheaded. I do not think there is any hope for Kenneth Bigley, although I truly hope that I am wrong.
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