With Germany's Decision To Send Tanks To Ukraine…

[naomi24]

… will the war escalate into other areas of Europe?

//Foreign Ministry spokeswoman Maria Zakharova said … the move was confirmation of Germany's involvement in "a war planned in advance" against Russia.

Ambassador Sergei Nechayev said "This extremely dangerous decision takes the conflict to a new level of confrontation," He added it would cause "irreparable damage to the already deplorable state of Russian-German relations". //

https://www.reuters.com/world/europe/russia-slams-german-tank-decision-escalation-conflict-betrayal-history-2023-01-25/

According to BBC News last night, there have been murmurs from Russian media that Germany is now a legitimate target.

[Zacs-Master]

I think you're right, Naomi. Russia will never forget. Although Operation Barberossa was a strategic failure, Russia suffered many losses.

[ToraToraTora]

dunno why Russia feels hard done by they won and added hugely to the Soviet union after the carve up.

[ichkeria]

Yeah Germany is the big bad Wolf.
The real problem is that Germans today are very sensitive to this.
It’s long past time they got over it.

[naomi24]

Oddly enough, zacs, one of the Germans Ich mentions who was interviewed last night dreaded the thought of German tanks rumbling across Europe again. It's difficult to know what the maniac that is Putin is thinking.

[Khandro]

Zacs, //Although Operation Barbarossa was a strategic failure, Russia suffered many losses.//

Ironically the greatest losses in that operation were nor Russians, but Ukrainians & Belarusians.

[Zacs-Master]

It is. As John Ruskin said 'Pride is at the bottom of all great mistakes'.

[Zacs-Master]

Khandro Ukraine and Belarusia were part of the Soviet Union in 1941.

[ichkeria]

“ dreaded the thought of German tanks rumbling across Europe again”

Someone needs to explain to them the difference between Nazi tanks rumbling towards Moscow and modern German tanks deployed to drive back the 21st century Nazis.
Then they’ll have cracked it.
The fear sadly even extends to Ukrainians. There was the lady in Zaporizhzhya I think it was worrying about nuclear war even as Putin’s war machine rages just beyond her city.
Her neighbour soon put her right though :-)

[naomi24]

//Someone needs to explain to them the difference between Nazi tanks rumbling towards Moscow and modern German tanks deployed to drive back the 21st century Nazis. //

I think they know the difference, Ich. They're just not sure everyone else does.

[ichkeria]

Some don’t seem to

[Zacs-Master]

One big difference is, they won't be being driven by Germans.

[naomi24]

Very true, zacs. Good point.

[ichkeria]

They should put General Ben Hodges (former US commander in Europe) in charge of the war effort and this would probably all be over by the summer.
He’s been banging on for some time about the need - well known generally I’m sure - for combined arms.
It’s not just tanks and nor will it be: fighter planes, long range ATACMS missiles, ground-launched small diameter bombs, grey eagle drones (really nasty) and attack helicopters with hellfire missiles :-)

[Zacs-Master]

Zelensky has renewed his request for fighter planes today, I believe. I can't see this happening as this really would be an escalation (shooting down Russian jets outside Ukraine etc).

[nicebloke1]

I agree ichkeria,it seems we are all happy to make the bullets for the Ukraine to fire on their own.While we just enjoy life.Its about time Nato stopped this murderer.Send the trained crew with the tanks, and get this sorted, once and for all.

[ichkeria]

They aren’t going to shoot down Russian jets outside Ukraine. Tho I can’t see the problem if they did
Fighter jets are coming if they’re not already in fact we learn today that a factory in US that makes them is ramping up production in order to replace the stocks in countries that sends them
This “fear of escalation” thing makes me want to scream. It’s time we did the escalating and stopped reacting to the existing Russian escalation all the time

[Khandro]

Zacs //Khandro Ukraine and Belarusia were part of the Soviet Union in 1941.//

Yes I know that, but they didn't call themselves then, & don't now, refer themselves as Russians (which is what you said). Though that is how the Russians liked to refer to them - & Putin still does.

I'm not seeking an argument, but I think it is an interesting point, that the attacks eastwards to Moscow by Hitler (& earlier by Napoleon) had to be first fought across Ukraine & Belarus accounting for so many losses on that soil

[nicebloke1]

We are showing Putin just how scared we are of him.This is why he wont stop, untill we really start.

[Zacs-Master]

Point taken, Khandro. I think all the casualties (around 4.5 million in 1941, I believe) were classed as Russian wherever they came from. If there is any historic hangover in Russia's attitude to Germany it may be being influenced by the fact that Putin still sees Ukraine as part of Russia.

[tomus42]

I don't see any risk of it spreading as long as America is in NATO.