News0 min ago
Tim Martin
I see Tim Martin is moaning because his pubs have run out of beer(thanks to Brexit),he is moaning because his pubs have run out of staff(thanks to Brexit).Its a good thing that Tim Martin wasnt a leading Brexiteer,wasnt it?Ohh,wait a minute...
Answers
Yep, I do too. And some knowledge of international supply chain logistics ... more than enough to recognise when somebody doesn't have a clue what they're talking about.
Try an easier question - why is the Government introducing temporary visas for European lorry drivers to be able to get back into the UK in the run up to Christmas?
Try an easier question - why is the Government introducing temporary visas for European lorry drivers to be able to get back into the UK in the run up to Christmas?
Ellipsis, you really haven't thought this through but ramble on nonetheless. Since the country is not experiencing a shortage of fuel, simply a shortage of drivers to deliver it from depots to garages (as your second paragraph confirms), your claimed expertise in international supply chain logistics is redundant. Are you sure you know what YOU'RE talking about? I think not.
We shouldn't need to be importing loads of forinners to do "menial" but necessary & important jobs. The UK has over-concentrated on "higher" education & is sending too many young people to universities doing often useless degrees & giving them career expectations way above their capabilities when they should be finding jobs as drivers, carers or whatever.
Ellipsis, You very clearly don't know what you're talking about. 'International' supply chain logistics doesn't apply here - and I answered your question at 10.48. We need more drivers to transport fuel from depots to garages, just as other countries do, that's all. Had people not panicked there wouldn't have been such a problem - but thankfully it appears to have been very short-lived.
Let me have a go at suggesting why Brexit is not the principle cause, then.
The country voted to leave the EU in June 2016. It officially left on 31st January 2020. The "transition phase" then began. That phase ended on 31st December 2020 and the UK's final separation was complete. That was nine months ago.
Concentrating on the tanker drivers' problem specifically, two weeks ago (i.e. eight and a half months after our separation) there were no problems with fuel delivery. I would suggest that any tanker drivers from the EU (and industry figures suggest there are very few compared to HGV drivers in general) who planned to return home because of Brexit would have done so. They'd have had over five years to consider their position and there is nothing to suggest that many, if any, of them had upped sticks in the last fortnight. There are as many tanker deliveries being made now as have been made throughout the summer. The reason the "crisis" has developed is because, based on the fact that BP was suffering a few minor localised delivery problems, drivers were persuaded by the media that there was no fuel around. There is. It's simply that vehicles that would normally roam round until their tanks were nearly empty are now being kept filled to the brim and some drivers are filling dustbins and milk bottles with fuel.
I provided links yesterday in another thread that showed that the proportion of EU HGV drivers who have left the business between 2016 and 2020 was near enough the same as the proportion of UK drivers who have done so. Some of those EU drivers may have left because of Brexit some of them may have left for the same reasons as UK drivers have. The problem for the haulage industry is not Brexit. It is that hauliers have continued to provide poor pay and conditions for its drivers. This, coupled with the UK's continuation of the ridiculous "Certificate of Professional Competence" which originated form the EU and the reticence of the DVSA to get back to working normally means many HGV drivers have found employment elsewhere. This will continue until the management of these companies accept this and do something about it.
Ironically it is our membership of the EU and the freedom of movement (low pay and the CPC requirement) that has contributed heavily to the haulage industry's troubles. Anyway, the tanker driver problem will fade into insignificance because it seems workers at the Ellesmere Port refinery are soon likely to go on strike:
https:/
There should be more than enough drivers to cart around the much reduced fuel that will be available as a result.
The country voted to leave the EU in June 2016. It officially left on 31st January 2020. The "transition phase" then began. That phase ended on 31st December 2020 and the UK's final separation was complete. That was nine months ago.
Concentrating on the tanker drivers' problem specifically, two weeks ago (i.e. eight and a half months after our separation) there were no problems with fuel delivery. I would suggest that any tanker drivers from the EU (and industry figures suggest there are very few compared to HGV drivers in general) who planned to return home because of Brexit would have done so. They'd have had over five years to consider their position and there is nothing to suggest that many, if any, of them had upped sticks in the last fortnight. There are as many tanker deliveries being made now as have been made throughout the summer. The reason the "crisis" has developed is because, based on the fact that BP was suffering a few minor localised delivery problems, drivers were persuaded by the media that there was no fuel around. There is. It's simply that vehicles that would normally roam round until their tanks were nearly empty are now being kept filled to the brim and some drivers are filling dustbins and milk bottles with fuel.
I provided links yesterday in another thread that showed that the proportion of EU HGV drivers who have left the business between 2016 and 2020 was near enough the same as the proportion of UK drivers who have done so. Some of those EU drivers may have left because of Brexit some of them may have left for the same reasons as UK drivers have. The problem for the haulage industry is not Brexit. It is that hauliers have continued to provide poor pay and conditions for its drivers. This, coupled with the UK's continuation of the ridiculous "Certificate of Professional Competence" which originated form the EU and the reticence of the DVSA to get back to working normally means many HGV drivers have found employment elsewhere. This will continue until the management of these companies accept this and do something about it.
Ironically it is our membership of the EU and the freedom of movement (low pay and the CPC requirement) that has contributed heavily to the haulage industry's troubles. Anyway, the tanker driver problem will fade into insignificance because it seems workers at the Ellesmere Port refinery are soon likely to go on strike:
https:/
There should be more than enough drivers to cart around the much reduced fuel that will be available as a result.
> Ellipsis, You very clearly don't know what you're talking about. 'International' supply chain logistics doesn't apply here
When the question (that you haven't answered) is "Why is the Government introducing temporary visas for European lorry drivers to be able to get back into the UK in the run up to Christmas?", clearly "International" is central ...
When the question (that you haven't answered) is "Why is the Government introducing temporary visas for European lorry drivers to be able to get back into the UK in the run up to Christmas?", clearly "International" is central ...
> Membership or not of the EU is irrelevant
Clearly it isn't as, if we were members of the EU, the visas would not be needed. And the implication in providing the visas is that there are drivers sitting in the EU who will come and work here in the UK once they're allowed to, and therefore would already be here working in the UK if they didn't need a visa ...
Clearly it isn't as, if we were members of the EU, the visas would not be needed. And the implication in providing the visas is that there are drivers sitting in the EU who will come and work here in the UK once they're allowed to, and therefore would already be here working in the UK if they didn't need a visa ...
Oh no, Ellipsis. That won't wash at all. Not even a good try. I'm not a lorry driver but I do know quite a bit about business and employing drivers does not equate to "international supply chain logistics". Furthermore, I do know the difference between 'international supply chain logistics' and 'domestic supply chain logistics'. Perhaps we'll discuss it again when you understand that too.
I have answered your question. We need more drivers. Which bit of that don't you understand?
I have answered your question. We need more drivers. Which bit of that don't you understand?
> employing drivers does not equate to "international supply chain logistics"
Does logistics include the people driving the lorries, naomi? Yes, it does. And are the people we're talking about, the ones needing the visas, in the UK? No, they're in the EU ... which is "international" to us.
> Well that's to be seen isn't it. What if they prefer to fill the vacant driver jobs in Germany and the rest of the EU.
Then they won't come here (and who could blame them). The point is, they're not here now, and our Government wants them here, and thinks they would (or at least could) be here if they weren't being prevented by the rules that have come in following Brexit - which is why they're introducing the visas.
Does logistics include the people driving the lorries, naomi? Yes, it does. And are the people we're talking about, the ones needing the visas, in the UK? No, they're in the EU ... which is "international" to us.
> Well that's to be seen isn't it. What if they prefer to fill the vacant driver jobs in Germany and the rest of the EU.
Then they won't come here (and who could blame them). The point is, they're not here now, and our Government wants them here, and thinks they would (or at least could) be here if they weren't being prevented by the rules that have come in following Brexit - which is why they're introducing the visas.
//...where have I mentioned fuel tanker drivers?//
You didn't. But the tanker driver problem is part of the wider haulage problems which some people are blaming on Brexit.
//This was the question: why is the Government introducing temporary visas for European lorry drivers to be able to get back into the UK in the run up to Christmas?//
The answer to that is I doubt anybody (including the people who thought up the idea) knows why. Any lorry drivers who have returned to the EU because of Brexit are unlikely to come back for a couple of months. Any who have never worked here are unlikely to put in a two month stint just to help out poorly managed UK haulage businesses, especially as they are to be thrown out on Christmas Eve. There are plenty of vacancies in their own countries.
However, you never know. I did notice one haulier was offering free accommodation, a £1k "signing on" bonus and 20% more than they pay their regular staff. Should go down well with the regulars.
You didn't. But the tanker driver problem is part of the wider haulage problems which some people are blaming on Brexit.
//This was the question: why is the Government introducing temporary visas for European lorry drivers to be able to get back into the UK in the run up to Christmas?//
The answer to that is I doubt anybody (including the people who thought up the idea) knows why. Any lorry drivers who have returned to the EU because of Brexit are unlikely to come back for a couple of months. Any who have never worked here are unlikely to put in a two month stint just to help out poorly managed UK haulage businesses, especially as they are to be thrown out on Christmas Eve. There are plenty of vacancies in their own countries.
However, you never know. I did notice one haulier was offering free accommodation, a £1k "signing on" bonus and 20% more than they pay their regular staff. Should go down well with the regulars.
And I forgot to add that if the government is short on ideas, I have a couple:
1. Abolish the ridiculous CPC requirement (the course for part of which includes a session on "maintaining a healthy diet as an HGV driver).
2. Get the DVLA and DVSA back to working properly.
They are two measures entirely within the UK government's control and will probably have far greater and longer term benefits than the stupid visa scheme.
1. Abolish the ridiculous CPC requirement (the course for part of which includes a session on "maintaining a healthy diet as an HGV driver).
2. Get the DVLA and DVSA back to working properly.
They are two measures entirely within the UK government's control and will probably have far greater and longer term benefits than the stupid visa scheme.
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