Covid Passports

[Khandro]

Keir Starmer came close to declaring a policy position this morning, saying that while he won’t come out against Covid passports at this stage, their potential rollout would be against the “British instinct”.
Is he correct, would a passport system be a good idea ?

[emmie]

SKS

He told the Daily Telegraph: "My instinct is that, as the vaccine is rolled out, as the number of hospital admissions and deaths go down, there will be a British sense that we don't actually want to go down this road.

[gulliver1]

The Brits have always been against carrying Identification as in I/D cards etc , they don't even have to carry a driving licence on them whilst driving. "British instinct" . What have they got to hide ?.

[New Judge]

//What have they got to hide ?.//

Ah, the usual stock question in such discussions. It should be reversed:

"Why do you want to know whether or not I've got anything to hide?"

Leaving aside wartime, the UK has never been a nation where "papers" are required to move about the country. It's a fundamental difference between the UK and other European countries and one of the main reasons why mainland Europeans will never understand us. The State has no business asking people where they are going or what they are doing or asking them to prove their identity or state of health.

[woofgang]

"And today it seems they may not vaccinate kids (as they shouldn't) does that mean you wont be able to go anywhere with them?"

well I'd vote for that, leave the noisy brats at home :)

[theshedman]

Gulliver most have said they have nothing against having a vaccine passport to travel. Most adults in the UK will have had their jabs by the summer how about you in the EU will you have had yours by then.

[pixie374]

For foreign travel, it depends on other countries. Within the UK, no.

[KARL]

The British attitude/instinct toward "papers" is rather similar to that of Unitedstatesians toward gun control - sort of religious in nature (heresy). Politicians know suggesting it is detrimental to their career, speaking against it will secure votes from the "religious". What seems forgotten is how many "papers" are an accepted requirement and norm (driving licence, proof of age, etc., etc.).

[Khandro]

NJ //The State has no business asking people where they are going or what they are doing....... //

but is OK in the business of locking down the entire country & telling the citizens what they can't do in their own homes?

[calmck]

The side effect of not be vaccinated against COVID can be death. The side effect of not being vaccinated against German measles can be a Rubella baby, blind, deaf, mentally challegened, heart problems. The side effect of not being vaccinated against Measles can be measles encephalitis and death. The side effects of not being vaccinated against mumps can be sterility. All children who are vaccinated should have been given a vaccination booklet. They are here. COVID could be entered in these.

[pixie374]

Not really accurate calm- as the majority of people won't actually get any of them. To say it's a side-effect of non- vaccination, actually isn't true. It's a risk, a gamble.

[ummmm]

They could just stamp your passport.

[anneasquith]

Ummm. Not everyone has a passport or would wish yo carry it everywhere. A small document the size of a credit card would be acceptable surely .?

[ummmm]

Yes, that would be better. I'm thinking of people going abroad though.

If you have a credit card passport what if you lose your purse? My passport doesn't leave this house unless I'm going on holiday.

[anneasquith]

For going abroad stamp on passport is a good idea. I’m thinking more on a domestic level. Either way proof of vaccine is a great idea IMO .

[woofgang]

I really really really REALLY wish that when this is discussed a difference could be made between a global system and an internal English system.
Anything to do with international travel with have to fit with an agreed global system. I don't see that happening any time soon and we won't have any choice even if dear Kier does think its "not British" If we want to travel, we will need to comply "end of" as someone else would say. Such a passport based scheme would not work in the UK as not everyone has, or wants, a passport and they cost much moolah.

I believe that its not illegal to refuse entry to shops, pubs so on to people who can't prove they have been vaccinated on the same lines as the "No shoes, no shirt, no service" signs seen in holiday spots and the dress code enforced by hotels and restaurants including the Venice Simplon train. In any case it should be possible to allow the system to accept a medical exemption. it would then be up to individual shops and so on to decide what proof they would accept. It would need to be something that could be used by everyone without incurring significant cost, so no mobile phones or passports.

Its also possible to dismiss people from employment for pretty much no reason at all if they haven't been there for 2 years, similarly its easy to not give work to people who work through agencies or are on zero hours contracts. As I have said before I am against compulsory health treatment of any kind and understand the HR issues, however if my late mother was still here and needing care, I would be off the vaccination for care workers fence faster than you can say "jab"

in any case it will need to wait until all over 18's have been vaccinated.

[pixie374]

I agree, wolf, except, so far- it is illegal to discriminate in vaccine status. Our local carehome had to check this. To be able to exclude unvaccinated people, just now, we would have to actually change the laws here. What other countries require, is different.

[woofgang]

It may be illegal for existing staff but not for customers. Staff employed under 2 years are easy to dismiss, staff on zero hours or agency employed need not be given any work and for new staff it can be in the contract as it is alreadyfor certain hospital staff and for staff where travel is a part of their job....but you know this because I have said it before.

[pixie374]

Sorry, I meant woof, not wolf. Yes, that is the case, and has been for many years.

[woofgang]

Pixie this is intersting....was "reasonable requirement" checked when your company looked into it?
https://www.pinsentmasons.com/out-law/guides/coronavirus-can-uk-employers-require-staff-vaccinated

[pixie374]

Actually, it has changed with zero hours contracts now. You have to give staff 13 weeks to turn down shifts, before you stop contacting them.