The Union

[Ric.ror]

How important is it?
I live in England and I don’t see how devolution with any of the 2 nations will make any great impact on my life (I appreciate NI is a different situation).

[steg]

//Huh,corby,hates England,loves Scotland,lives in England....err,am i missing something here...//

Aye you hate Scotland but love england, and you stay in Scotland

[KARL]

21.13 "I KNOW they were STARTED and then led, for years, by an actual Nazi, Arthur Donaldson." SNP was not "started by" Donaldson, but he became its leader in 1960. Does the means of saying something justify some end, what end ? Foam at mouth doesn't change the facts either. The Nazi allegation, at a time of war when he-said-I-said would be very powerful medicine, is unproven and thus by now irretrievably factually null and void (a smear akin to the use of blasphemy allegations in today's Pakistan) - some are still stuck in fighting that same war.

[Untitled]

Without the Union there is no United Kingdom of Great Britain... there would just be the United Kingdom of England & Wales (and maybe Northern Ireland)... a much smaller and diminished remnant of a country that once was.

Personally I struggle to feel much excitement or attachment to some shattered patchwork of nations on the island of Great Britain and I think it is deeply sad that so many seem keen on Scotland leaving in order to save money. The British - English and Scots both - don't seem to be capable of making the case for the union any more... at best they seem indifferent to it and more interested in the respective patches of this island descending into insularity and irrelevance.

That makes me sad but there is no iron law of history that says all countries are entitled to survive... it appears to be our lot to watch our own break apart... Some will no doubt do so with the peculiar kind of glee that attends the destruction of ancient things.

[Untitled]

I think it is you that has made a fool of yourself spicerack...

[bhg481]

Am I wrong in thinking the United Kingdom resulted from the kingdoms of England And Scotland being united, with James becoming king of the unison? Wales is a principality and I haven't a clue what Ireland is. If my initial statement is correct then Scotland becoming independent will mean there is no longer a united kingdom, although we will still have a kingdom..

[ToraToraTora]

hogwash ^^^^ if 8% of something leaves 92% of it remains. UK will still remain, end of.

[bhg481]

Which kingdoms did unite to form the United Kingdom then?

[maggiebee]

Good grief TTT. Without the words "end of" you'd be speechless!

[davebro]

from Wiki - England & Scotland joined together in 1707 to form GT Britain.The Act Of Union in 1800 added Ireland to form the United Kingdom of Great Britain & Ireland.

A large part of Ireland leaving didn't stop it being the United Kingdom.

[Ellipsis]

The sequence of events below shows how Wales became a principality of the Kingdom of England; the Kingdoms of England and Scotland were combined to make a Kingdom of Great Britain; the island of Ireland was added to make a United Kingdom of Great Britain and Ireland; and then the country of Ireland was formed and split away, leaving the United Kingdom of Great Britain and Northern Ireland.

Wales:
1284 - Statute of Rhuddlan - https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Statute_of_Rhuddlan
1535 and 1542 - Laws in Wales Acts - https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Laws_in_Wales_Acts_1535_and_1542

Scotland:
1) 1603 - Union of the Crowns - https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Union_of_the_Crowns
2) 1707 - formation of the Kingdom of Great Britain - https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kingdom_of_Great_Britain

Ireland:
1801 - Acts of Union - https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Acts_of_Union_1800
1921 - Partition of Ireland - https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Partition_of_Ireland


So the "United Kingdom" in our country's name comes from the uniting of Ireland with the Kingdom of Great Britain. If the Kingdom of Great Britain is broken up, the name "United Kingdom" ceases to have much meaning. Even so, the remaining part is likely to be called the United Kingdom since it would be too much trouble for all concerned (worldwide) to call it anything else. It would be even worse than when they renamed Marathon to Snickers.

[davebro]

Just call it all England for simplicity!

[bhg481]

Ellipsis - thank you for a nice, polite explanation. I originally asked if I was wrong you have politely explained that I was and why.

[Ellipsis]

You're welcome :)

[Bobbisox1]

Why is anyone bothered?
If they go, fine if they stay, fine!

[ToraToraTora]

I don't really care if they leave I just wish they'd stop saying it's the end of the UK if they do and the flag would change yada yada. Cobras, you ain't that significant my lovelies!

[Bobbisox1]

I wouldn’t mind the flag being the Saint George one if they go:0)

[Untitled]

how on earth could we go on calling ourselves the UK of Great Britain without Scotland in it? We would look utterly silly and the name of our country would be a total lie...

[ichkeria]

The SNP came about in 1933 when the National Party of Scotland merged with the Scottish Party. That was seen as a break between radical politics and Scottish nationalism, as the latter was right wing and the former distanced itself from nationalistic socialists in the Labour Party. Its early guiding light was John MacCormick. An earlier noted Scottish nationalist was of course the communist poet Hugh MacDiarmid. MacCormick was at pains to distance the SNP from the battier MacDiarmuid-like nationalists. They only slowly came round to the idea of conscription before the war with Hitler.

[Sunk]

// if 8% of something leaves 92% of it remains. UK will still remain, end of. //

The Kingdom of England and the Kingdom of Scotland combined to form the United Kingdom. If you uncombine them, you no longer have a United Kingdom.

England is 50K sq miles, and Scotland is 30K sq miles.
Not sure were your 92% - 8% comes from?

[ichkeria]

Regardless of what happens, and what you think, it can only be a United Kingdom if there’s two or more bits to it, whatever those bits might be.
That’s kind of obvious.