Jacob Rees Mogg

[Hopkirk]

Is it just journalists who are affronted by his Grenfell comments?

Perhaps a little insensitive, but I can't see much wrong with his comments. To listen to the BBC this morning, you would have thought he lit the fire.

[ToraToraTora]

Journos tend to focus on irrelevant BS rather than the main topic.

[Old_Geezer]

I doubt it's just journalists. You find snowflakes everywhere, especially in the colder months.

[douglas9401]

Oh! Oh! Link?

[naomi24]

Perfect timing for the BBC to make another mountain out of another molehill. There’s an election looming and they're on the campaign trail.

[Sqad]

A man who prides himself on speech and language makes a stupid and ill thought out comment on a particularly sensitive issue at a particularly inopportune moment.

HOWEVER.......I do have a certain sympathy for him as my initial reaction would be to flee the source of my impending demise, despite the advice of firefighters.

[jim360]

It's later been compounded by the fact that another Tory, Andrew Bridgen, by arguing that Rees-Mogg's point was that, and I quote, "... what he’s failed to realise is that in a life-threatening and stressful situation, most people, most of the public, will probably defer to the advice of an authority figure ... What he’s actually saying is he would have made a better decision than the authority figures that gave that advice."

Which is, at the very least, piling on the insensitivity.

[spathiphyllum]

I agree sqad. In fact, I said it long before all this Mogg stuff came out.

Do you think he really feels he has to apologise? I'm sure he doesn't. As he said.. It's common sense.

[Sqad]

Jim

"What he’s actually saying is he would have made a better decision than the authority figures that gave that advice."

In this rather unique and life threatening situation i can quite understand a human reaction based on instinct rather than advice.......it happens.

[spathiphyllum]

"What he’s actually saying is he would have made a better decision than the authority figures that gave that advice."

Well if he told them to get out, then he would have wouldn't he. It's been proven that the firefighters didn't know what was going on so they implemented their standard procedure.

[spathiphyllum]

Fight or flight sqad. Fight your intuition and stay put like you're told, or flee the scene and live another day.

I know what i'd do.

[Rosie29]

This is a bit of a diversion but did anyone hear the LBC interview? Because I was wondering what question JRM was asked for him to give that reply.

[spathiphyllum]

"There have been suggestion that in part the tragedies was caused by racism or policies of class, are these allegations correct? "

Was the question.

[spathiphyllum]

OK not a direct quote but pretty much.

[Rosie29]

Thanks Spath.

[naomi24]

//"What he’s actually saying is he would have made a better decision than the authority figures that gave that advice." //

No ... what he actually said is what he said. That in his opinion it's common sense to leave a burning building.

[spathiphyllum]

Even if that was what he was saying though, surely he would have been right?

[jim360]

The thing about the "common sense to leave a burning building" is that sometimes it's wrong. Because if everybody has that sense at once then you get massive crowding, as everyone goes for the same (bottleneck) exit, and that tends to lead to even more tragedy. This is the sort of thing again and again seen in practice. So the advice is usually to stay put to avoid this and let firefighters sort the fire out. That failed tragically in this case, but that doesn't make the "stay put" advice wrong.

Also, just to be clear, the part of my post that you quote is a direct quote of Andrew Bridgen's. Maybe he was wrong in what he said and the meaning he ascribed to JRM's post, but those are his words rather than mine. JRM himself has apologised completely, which seems to me correct. Even if you hold that he had a point, some things are better left unsaid.

[naomi24]

spath, he's right if circumstances allow. In the case of Grenfell circumstances didn't allow. Anyone leaving their flats would have had to negotiate dark stairwells filled with toxic smoke - not to mention other panicking residents - and that would not have been a common sense choice.

[Gromit]

Mogg is guilty of hindsight. The procedure for what to do in a fire is (was) well known. The advice plastered in corridors in all high-rise blocks, not just Grenfell, was to stay in your flat.

https://i.dailymail.co.uk/i/newpix/2018/06/04/01/4CE3AE9200000578-5801903-image-a-59_1528072169333.jpg

Thousands of people have been told to stay in their flats for many years, it has been drilled into them, and people will (did) follow the advice.
For Mogg and others to say they would have ignored the advice, and the people who obeyed would now be alive if they had have been as clever as Mogg, is somewhat blaming the victims for dying.

[spathiphyllum]

You know like 70 people died right? Are you saying if people stayed put, less people would have died? Like what is your point above Naomi because in my mind, what you've just said, is complete nonsense.

Common sense.. fight for your life or sit until you burn to death.

Seems naomi would burn as to not panic other residents.

In the case of grenfell, what Mogg said was bang on.