ChatterBank1 min ago
Jacob Rees Mogg And Grenfell
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Jacob Rees Mogg has apologised for his comments in an interview on LBC with Nick Ferrari, where he appeared to imply that the victims who heeded the advice of the fire service, and stayed in their apartments, and perished, lacked 'common sense' - stating that he would have ignored the advice and left the building regardless of the advice to stay from the fire service operatives at the scene.
This has blown up into a political row, and Mr Rees Mogg has been criticised for what is perceived as a snobbish and superior attitude to people from a different social class from his own.
I have my own view, but I am happy to hold onto it until others have had their say.
Jacob Rees Mogg has apologised for his comments in an interview on LBC with Nick Ferrari, where he appeared to imply that the victims who heeded the advice of the fire service, and stayed in their apartments, and perished, lacked 'common sense' - stating that he would have ignored the advice and left the building regardless of the advice to stay from the fire service operatives at the scene.
This has blown up into a political row, and Mr Rees Mogg has been criticised for what is perceived as a snobbish and superior attitude to people from a different social class from his own.
I have my own view, but I am happy to hold onto it until others have had their say.
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I’m looking forward to reading your view, Andy.
In my opinion he was wrong to say what he said. When you’re in a towering inferno you’re panicking. You’re relying on the firefighters to give you the correct advice, or maybe you just run anyway.
Common sense has nothing to do with it.
The man is a complete ***.
In my opinion he was wrong to say what he said. When you’re in a towering inferno you’re panicking. You’re relying on the firefighters to give you the correct advice, or maybe you just run anyway.
Common sense has nothing to do with it.
The man is a complete ***.
It's easy to imagine that we would all just "get out" during a fire. It seems to be the natural thing to do....
But most modern buildings are built now to contain fires safely and people are trained to shut all doors and windows.
Thankfully, I have never been in a fire... but I would not leave those behind, who couldn't physically leave. The way buildings are properly made now, is essential.
But most modern buildings are built now to contain fires safely and people are trained to shut all doors and windows.
Thankfully, I have never been in a fire... but I would not leave those behind, who couldn't physically leave. The way buildings are properly made now, is essential.
I don't know if you have seen this thread, Andy...
https:/
But some relevant comments there xx
https:/
But some relevant comments there xx
//...he would have ignored the advice and left the building regardless of the advice to stay from the fire service operatives at the scene.//
If he had been above the fourth floor he would not have made it. The only stairwell was acting as a chimney and was full of dense, toxic smoke. Two breaths in that atmosphere would have rendered anyone unconscious. The only survivors from the higher levels had been led out by firefighters who shared their breathing apparatus with those they rescued.
There was a firefighter on a radio phone-in this morning who had been one of those who had rescued people in just that way. Apart from the problem mentioned above, there was no possibility of people of mixed abilities safely descending from as high as twelve floors in a single dark stairwell (even without the smoke) without major problems caused by panic, falls and trampling. That gentleman's first hand account somewhat makes a mockery of the recent findings by the inquiry (which suggested the "stay put" policy was flawed) and trashes JRM's ridiculous comment. It also casts some doubt on the sagacity and widespread knowledge of one of our more learned correspondents in this question last week:
https:/
To save you searching through the 200-odd answers, I'll quote you a few passages:
//Ultimately, they told people to "stay put" in a death trap, which was clearly evident from approach.//
//If a building is on fire, you get out. Basic knowledge.//
//That's what happens when you blindly follow authoritarian figures.
Always do what you personally think is best.//
//I've actually had training on such topics, so no it's not nonsense. It's common sense. Something that lacks here.//
I notice JRM has issued an apology.
If he had been above the fourth floor he would not have made it. The only stairwell was acting as a chimney and was full of dense, toxic smoke. Two breaths in that atmosphere would have rendered anyone unconscious. The only survivors from the higher levels had been led out by firefighters who shared their breathing apparatus with those they rescued.
There was a firefighter on a radio phone-in this morning who had been one of those who had rescued people in just that way. Apart from the problem mentioned above, there was no possibility of people of mixed abilities safely descending from as high as twelve floors in a single dark stairwell (even without the smoke) without major problems caused by panic, falls and trampling. That gentleman's first hand account somewhat makes a mockery of the recent findings by the inquiry (which suggested the "stay put" policy was flawed) and trashes JRM's ridiculous comment. It also casts some doubt on the sagacity and widespread knowledge of one of our more learned correspondents in this question last week:
https:/
To save you searching through the 200-odd answers, I'll quote you a few passages:
//Ultimately, they told people to "stay put" in a death trap, which was clearly evident from approach.//
//If a building is on fire, you get out. Basic knowledge.//
//That's what happens when you blindly follow authoritarian figures.
Always do what you personally think is best.//
//I've actually had training on such topics, so no it's not nonsense. It's common sense. Something that lacks here.//
I notice JRM has issued an apology.
// Well what can you expect from TTT, he is just another Typical Tory Twit,not engaging brain before running his mouth. //
poor TTT hasnt "contributed" - yet, has he?
I heard the Mogg report and wondered if his grandfather had said 1917 to his men
"over the parapets of these trenches there are huns. go and kill them!"
and instead, the tommies shot the officers, got out of the back of the trenches all right and brewed a cuppa....
The mogster might drawl: "well over a century, even my family laaaaarns lessons!"
two things: first aid courses are being run for zero-attenders . That is for the people who are present at a bomb but er havent lost a limb. So they can begin to patch up the injured whilst those who should be doing their job are faffing around outside wondering if there is a shooter inside.
45 mins gap for Manchester 2017 ["someone stuck a gun into my mush, dressed like an I-dont-know-what. I asked him if he was going to anything for the injure.He went away and stuck his mauser in someone else's mush" witness-kerslake]
48 h for London Bridge - didnt they find 5 dead people down some stairs the day after?
No 2 and a report - it must have been Lakanal house - the curtain raiser.
someone ran along knocking up his floor - with "get out! there is a fire!"(*) and got a full house of - "I spik no Angleesh! Nrt!" and the row of doors closed and locked. The onlooker said - this has to change or there will be more deaths
(and we have not heard a word since)
(*) and you re all going to DIIIIIIEEEE!
poor TTT hasnt "contributed" - yet, has he?
I heard the Mogg report and wondered if his grandfather had said 1917 to his men
"over the parapets of these trenches there are huns. go and kill them!"
and instead, the tommies shot the officers, got out of the back of the trenches all right and brewed a cuppa....
The mogster might drawl: "well over a century, even my family laaaaarns lessons!"
two things: first aid courses are being run for zero-attenders . That is for the people who are present at a bomb but er havent lost a limb. So they can begin to patch up the injured whilst those who should be doing their job are faffing around outside wondering if there is a shooter inside.
45 mins gap for Manchester 2017 ["someone stuck a gun into my mush, dressed like an I-dont-know-what. I asked him if he was going to anything for the injure.He went away and stuck his mauser in someone else's mush" witness-kerslake]
48 h for London Bridge - didnt they find 5 dead people down some stairs the day after?
No 2 and a report - it must have been Lakanal house - the curtain raiser.
someone ran along knocking up his floor - with "get out! there is a fire!"(*) and got a full house of - "I spik no Angleesh! Nrt!" and the row of doors closed and locked. The onlooker said - this has to change or there will be more deaths
(and we have not heard a word since)
(*) and you re all going to DIIIIIIEEEE!
Actually I do agree with JRM to a degree.
My first reaction is get out. Although there was no actual fire I was in a high rise hotel and the alarm went off at about midnight. I got us all up just coats and shoes on and we were down 11 flights of stairs before most people had even looked out their doors. They were still waiting at the stairwell fire doors being held back by staff when we returned to our rooms. Get up get out.
If someone had told us to stay put I would have been highly suspicious but would probably have done as I was told. It would be dependant on the information I was told.
But tbh in these days of blame and outrage (some justified) no matter how much he apologises he will not be forgiven for saying it.
My first reaction is get out. Although there was no actual fire I was in a high rise hotel and the alarm went off at about midnight. I got us all up just coats and shoes on and we were down 11 flights of stairs before most people had even looked out their doors. They were still waiting at the stairwell fire doors being held back by staff when we returned to our rooms. Get up get out.
If someone had told us to stay put I would have been highly suspicious but would probably have done as I was told. It would be dependant on the information I was told.
But tbh in these days of blame and outrage (some justified) no matter how much he apologises he will not be forgiven for saying it.
I think he has a point, the FB have been entirely un receptive to the idea that their advice was wrong and caused death in this case. if I was in that building I'd have not got out as soon as I could. The FB advice is no doubt valid in many cases but you cannot have blanket advice for all situations you have to react accordingly. No doubt the rabid left will attack JRM for this but I think he's bang on.
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