Quizzes & Puzzles6 mins ago
Brexit Disaster Looming
Once more May's tory bunch has demonstrated complete lack of consideration for the devolution settlement. The cabinet subcommittee met at Chequers to decide the UK position for the next stage of negotiations. There was no Scottish, or Welsh representation at that crucial meeting.
The Northern Ireland secretary was there because the DUP's opinion must be respected given
they prop up May's sorry excuse for a government. God help Ireland when the Good Friday agreement is ignored to serve the interests of the Brexiteers. No one has yet explained how you can have an open border between the North and South of the Island of Ireland without either Irish unity or membership of the customs union and single market.
No fudge as employed in December will work this time. A fudge cannot be detailed in legislation.
Scotland, Wales and the Republic of Ireland cannot be ignored.
The Northern Ireland secretary was there because the DUP's opinion must be respected given
they prop up May's sorry excuse for a government. God help Ireland when the Good Friday agreement is ignored to serve the interests of the Brexiteers. No one has yet explained how you can have an open border between the North and South of the Island of Ireland without either Irish unity or membership of the customs union and single market.
No fudge as employed in December will work this time. A fudge cannot be detailed in legislation.
Scotland, Wales and the Republic of Ireland cannot be ignored.
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Possibly. But the whole point is that the border would be an exception. There would be enough surveillance to check use and/or abuse; and maybe things could change in the future if the two countries agree things have changed, and such is needed; but until then we have a solution. All it needs is the political will.
//There would be enough surveillance to check use and/or abuse//
Abuse of what? The law? That's exactly the point of confusion. Presently, there is visa-free travel between the UK and Ireland under two agreements: joint EU membership, and pre-existing deals with island. Neither of them are applicable if the UK leaves the EU and Ireland stays, because free movement is not possible between a non-EU state and an EU state - and back when we had our original arrangements neither of us were members.
Abuse of what? The law? That's exactly the point of confusion. Presently, there is visa-free travel between the UK and Ireland under two agreements: joint EU membership, and pre-existing deals with island. Neither of them are applicable if the UK leaves the EU and Ireland stays, because free movement is not possible between a non-EU state and an EU state - and back when we had our original arrangements neither of us were members.
The massive brains of our rulers, the elite, products of the best schools and universities will save us from catastrophe.
Who could doubt it for a moment given recent history?
Yes a cabal of lying, self interested, greedy, useless second rate politicians with their minds on what's in it for them will save the day.
Who could doubt it for a moment given recent history?
Yes a cabal of lying, self interested, greedy, useless second rate politicians with their minds on what's in it for them will save the day.
Abuse by illegal immigrants using it as an entry point. An open border is still open. It is the responsibility of both nations to ensure it's fit for purpose and to counteract such abuse.
One doesn't need to return to pre Good Friday conditions simply because the EU wishes to be unreasonable. All parties need to take responsibility to ensure the best result.
Since the agreement is between two nations, no on else, the EU has the responsibility to be flexible (or admit to being a deliberate troublemaker).
The UK has shown it is content to have free movement after Brexit, as is the case at present; Southern Ireland claims it wants it but looks like they'd capitulate to the EU and renege on the agreement. The ball is in their court as they are causing the issue.
There is no reason whatsoever that the border can't be designated an exception and free movement occur across the border on a single island. Only troublemakers insist on causing trouble, and supporters seem to wish to justify that.
One doesn't need to return to pre Good Friday conditions simply because the EU wishes to be unreasonable. All parties need to take responsibility to ensure the best result.
Since the agreement is between two nations, no on else, the EU has the responsibility to be flexible (or admit to being a deliberate troublemaker).
The UK has shown it is content to have free movement after Brexit, as is the case at present; Southern Ireland claims it wants it but looks like they'd capitulate to the EU and renege on the agreement. The ball is in their court as they are causing the issue.
There is no reason whatsoever that the border can't be designated an exception and free movement occur across the border on a single island. Only troublemakers insist on causing trouble, and supporters seem to wish to justify that.
Holy cow. It’s nothing to do with trouble makers. The GF agreement specifically references the EU (it had to as we are members and there was a border, on our land, which was with a non EU country) We wrote it in, not the EU, therefore we have to re write it now that we’re leaving. The EU obviously want a say in this. To believe they wouldn’t is sheer naivety.
Why is it their responsibility? It was our agreement which had to reference the EU for the reasons I’ve given. Anyone who was concerned about this could have foreseen this arising before they voted.
You need to read this. Especially the ‘legal position’ bit:
http://
You need to read this. Especially the ‘legal position’ bit:
http://
“It’s nothing to do with trouble makers. The GF agreement specifically references the EU (it had to as we are members and there was a border, on our land, which was with a non EU country)”
Where was this said border then, Zacs? As far as I can recall (and certainly at the time of the GF agreement) the United Kingdom and Ireland have either both been in or both been out of the EU. Where was there “a border, on our land, which was with a non EU country”?
Anyway it matters little. It should not be beyond the wit of a few scribes to tinker with the wording of the ridiculous GF agreement. That agreement, such that it was, was always bound to deliver more division and rancour than it solved. In any case it seems largely redundant now as the famed (and equally ludicrous) “power sharing” arrangement has collapsed and seems unlikely to be restored in the near or perhaps even distant future.
More smoke and mirrors to hamper the Brexit process.
“//Abuse by illegal immigrants using it as an entry point//
Illegal under what law?”
Ilegal under the United Nations Convention to the Status of Refugees and its unnecessary EU counterpart, the Dublin Agreement. Both say that those seeking refuge should do so in the first safe country they encounter or they can be treated as illegal entrants. Refugees arriving in Ireland are unlikely to have come directly from a country where they are under threat.
“Scotland and Wales are NOT "councils". They are countries.”
No they are not, Maggie. They are constituent parts of the United Kingdom in the same way that London and Liverpool are. The only autonomy they enjoy is that devolved to them by the UK government (in the same way that local councils enjoy such autonomy).
Where was this said border then, Zacs? As far as I can recall (and certainly at the time of the GF agreement) the United Kingdom and Ireland have either both been in or both been out of the EU. Where was there “a border, on our land, which was with a non EU country”?
Anyway it matters little. It should not be beyond the wit of a few scribes to tinker with the wording of the ridiculous GF agreement. That agreement, such that it was, was always bound to deliver more division and rancour than it solved. In any case it seems largely redundant now as the famed (and equally ludicrous) “power sharing” arrangement has collapsed and seems unlikely to be restored in the near or perhaps even distant future.
More smoke and mirrors to hamper the Brexit process.
“//Abuse by illegal immigrants using it as an entry point//
Illegal under what law?”
Ilegal under the United Nations Convention to the Status of Refugees and its unnecessary EU counterpart, the Dublin Agreement. Both say that those seeking refuge should do so in the first safe country they encounter or they can be treated as illegal entrants. Refugees arriving in Ireland are unlikely to have come directly from a country where they are under threat.
“Scotland and Wales are NOT "councils". They are countries.”
No they are not, Maggie. They are constituent parts of the United Kingdom in the same way that London and Liverpool are. The only autonomy they enjoy is that devolved to them by the UK government (in the same way that local councils enjoy such autonomy).
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