Crosswords1 min ago
The European Union: In Or Out?
This poll is closed.
If the EU referendum happened tomorrow, which way would you vote?
- Out - 208 votes
- 70%
- In - 91 votes
- 30%
Stats until: 09:18 Sun 28th Apr 2024 (Refreshed every 5 minutes)
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“…just as the majority of active AB Members are right-wing ?”
This isn’t a Left or Right issue, Mikey. Dislke of the EU is not the sole preserve of the Right any more than love of it is solely a Left Wing attribute. Sunny-dave and Hopkirk have both mentioned him. The Viscount Stansgate (aka Tony Benn) was probably one of the most prominent and ardent Left Wingers of recent times being, in my book anyway, slightly to the Left of Fidel Castro. But he was vehemently opposed to the EEC (as it then was). In his diary he wrote that he "loathed" the EEC; he claimed it was "bureaucratic and centralised" and "of course it is really dominated by Germany. All the Common Market countries except the UK have been occupied by Germany, and they have this mixed feeling of hatred and subservience towards the Germans". When accused of xenophobia (some accusation!) he stated that he did not hate foreigners but loved democracy. And all this he wrote long before the EEC had morphed into th supranational anti-democratic beast that it has become today.
Your very own Mr Corbyn (hardly to the Right of centre) spent most of his political life opposing the EU and has only changed his view since being elevated to high office. He says he believes the UK “should play a crucial role in Europe by making demands about working arrangements across the continent, the levels of corporation taxation and in forming an agreement on environmental regulation.” Nonetheless he also says he would advocate the UK leaves the bloc should it become “a totally brutal organisation”. I don’t quite know where he has been for the past few years but it is already evident that the EU is well on the way to justifying that proud description.
It will come as no surprise that I cannot understand anybody in the UK voting to remain in the EU. For me it is not about whether I will be 2p or 3p better or worse off each week. The EU displays an unashamed and utter contempt for the will of the people in its member nations. Anything that obstructs the “European Project” is ruthlessly brushed aside with voters and even national governments being seen as a nuisance, as obstacles to be overcome on the way to a European superstate. But I particularly cannot understand why those on the Left can support an organisation that demonstrates such a huge democratic deficiency.
It’s a shame you’ve resorted to insulting those who disagree with your view, DT. But I’ll join your argument in the hope that you can debate without further insult:
“… we work for change from within”
How, exactly? Bear in mind that Mr Cameron achieved four-fifths of five-eighths of sod all when he tried to achieve change with the threat of “Brexit” to back him up. The EU obviously doesn’t do change. How much “change from within” is likely after we have voted to remain in an organisation that has so many faults and is so much ill-disposed towards the UK’s wellbeing?
This isn’t a Left or Right issue, Mikey. Dislke of the EU is not the sole preserve of the Right any more than love of it is solely a Left Wing attribute. Sunny-dave and Hopkirk have both mentioned him. The Viscount Stansgate (aka Tony Benn) was probably one of the most prominent and ardent Left Wingers of recent times being, in my book anyway, slightly to the Left of Fidel Castro. But he was vehemently opposed to the EEC (as it then was). In his diary he wrote that he "loathed" the EEC; he claimed it was "bureaucratic and centralised" and "of course it is really dominated by Germany. All the Common Market countries except the UK have been occupied by Germany, and they have this mixed feeling of hatred and subservience towards the Germans". When accused of xenophobia (some accusation!) he stated that he did not hate foreigners but loved democracy. And all this he wrote long before the EEC had morphed into th supranational anti-democratic beast that it has become today.
Your very own Mr Corbyn (hardly to the Right of centre) spent most of his political life opposing the EU and has only changed his view since being elevated to high office. He says he believes the UK “should play a crucial role in Europe by making demands about working arrangements across the continent, the levels of corporation taxation and in forming an agreement on environmental regulation.” Nonetheless he also says he would advocate the UK leaves the bloc should it become “a totally brutal organisation”. I don’t quite know where he has been for the past few years but it is already evident that the EU is well on the way to justifying that proud description.
It will come as no surprise that I cannot understand anybody in the UK voting to remain in the EU. For me it is not about whether I will be 2p or 3p better or worse off each week. The EU displays an unashamed and utter contempt for the will of the people in its member nations. Anything that obstructs the “European Project” is ruthlessly brushed aside with voters and even national governments being seen as a nuisance, as obstacles to be overcome on the way to a European superstate. But I particularly cannot understand why those on the Left can support an organisation that demonstrates such a huge democratic deficiency.
It’s a shame you’ve resorted to insulting those who disagree with your view, DT. But I’ll join your argument in the hope that you can debate without further insult:
“… we work for change from within”
How, exactly? Bear in mind that Mr Cameron achieved four-fifths of five-eighths of sod all when he tried to achieve change with the threat of “Brexit” to back him up. The EU obviously doesn’t do change. How much “change from within” is likely after we have voted to remain in an organisation that has so many faults and is so much ill-disposed towards the UK’s wellbeing?
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