Don't Eat Celery In The Sun, Folks!
Body & Soul7 mins ago
Where Is Your 'war On Terror' Now President Bush?
162 Answers
After this country slavishly followed the war-monger Bush in his laughably termed 'war on terror' (How can you fight a war against a concept?) and after all the loss of lives as soldiers 'protect' us - it has come to this.
It's as easy as two maniacs with weapons to kill people on British streets.
All that military power, time, money, casualties and deaths on both sides to 'protect' us, and how protected are we really?
Surely the time has come to accept that we can never 'win' this war, but we must try and find a solution to the hatred that drives Moslem extremists to hate the West so much.
If the numpties in the EDL start their 'revenge', then let's not imagine that Afghanistan will start happening right here, right now.
Enough is enough - time to try and sort this out with dialogue, because guns and bombs are not working for anyone.
It's as easy as two maniacs with weapons to kill people on British streets.
All that military power, time, money, casualties and deaths on both sides to 'protect' us, and how protected are we really?
Surely the time has come to accept that we can never 'win' this war, but we must try and find a solution to the hatred that drives Moslem extremists to hate the West so much.
If the numpties in the EDL start their 'revenge', then let's not imagine that Afghanistan will start happening right here, right now.
Enough is enough - time to try and sort this out with dialogue, because guns and bombs are not working for anyone.
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ummmm
/// Well done EDL for taking up so much of our police forces time!! ///
You would be well to criticise other regular and even more violent protesters that constantly waste police time, rather than the same small group of EDL protesters, who sometimes find the need to take to the streets in protest.
But then that would mean criticising those on the Left, along with others which wouldn't be quite PC to do so.
/// Well done EDL for taking up so much of our police forces time!! ///
You would be well to criticise other regular and even more violent protesters that constantly waste police time, rather than the same small group of EDL protesters, who sometimes find the need to take to the streets in protest.
But then that would mean criticising those on the Left, along with others which wouldn't be quite PC to do so.
What I can't understand is this. Western forces went into Afghanistan to remove the Taliban, who are an all-round Bad Thing. Among many other things the Taliban shoot little Muslim girls in the head, because they want to go to school, a concept that the rest of the civilised world got its head round a long time ago. There is a list of atrocities that organisations like the Taliban are guilty of the length of your arm.
Why aren't these brave Muslim warriors that lurk outside of British Army barracks, in order to murder people, fighting the Taliban instead of the civilised world ? Ditto for the unhinged amongst them that think its a good idea to kill people by putting a bomb on the Tube.
Any Muslims, mad ones only please, that can say why they are not fighting to protect their fellow Muslims from these people ?
Why aren't these brave Muslim warriors that lurk outside of British Army barracks, in order to murder people, fighting the Taliban instead of the civilised world ? Ditto for the unhinged amongst them that think its a good idea to kill people by putting a bomb on the Tube.
Any Muslims, mad ones only please, that can say why they are not fighting to protect their fellow Muslims from these people ?
All this talk of talk, but what would they talk about ? A peace agreement ? Really ? Did the PM not bring Afghans and Pakistanis to Chequers earlier this year for a push for peace agenda and in order to 'suck in' the Taliban? Did it work?
For all intents and purposes the Taliban might as well just sit it out and wait for allied military withdrawl in the next 2 years, then continue ravaging their own countries from within? Back to Sq1.
For all intents and purposes the Taliban might as well just sit it out and wait for allied military withdrawl in the next 2 years, then continue ravaging their own countries from within? Back to Sq1.
I'm at the risk of contradicting myself several times in a single post, but here goes:
- Talking to people with a position as extreme and wrong as this gives that position, and those people, a legitimacy it and they do not deserve.
- Not talking to them doesn't really solve the problem either, as then they still have the same position but can claim their voice is ignored = more anger, more fuel on the fire.
- Then again most extremists never listen to reason anyway so talking achieves little or nothing.
- But maybe one or two will listen so at least you've made a difference to those ones.
And so on and so forth, I can keep on arguing with myself on this all day...
The most successful approach is probably the one used in Malaya by General Sir Harold Briggs -- if only we had tried the same with equal fervour in Iraq or Afghanistan we might be faced with far less mess. Simple idea -- engage with the communities from which these people come from, so as to cut the extremists of from popular support. No amount of shouting, or fighting, from the West will ever be effective against those who wish to destroy us -- but if their own friends and families protest, that might make the difference.
- Talking to people with a position as extreme and wrong as this gives that position, and those people, a legitimacy it and they do not deserve.
- Not talking to them doesn't really solve the problem either, as then they still have the same position but can claim their voice is ignored = more anger, more fuel on the fire.
- Then again most extremists never listen to reason anyway so talking achieves little or nothing.
- But maybe one or two will listen so at least you've made a difference to those ones.
And so on and so forth, I can keep on arguing with myself on this all day...
The most successful approach is probably the one used in Malaya by General Sir Harold Briggs -- if only we had tried the same with equal fervour in Iraq or Afghanistan we might be faced with far less mess. Simple idea -- engage with the communities from which these people come from, so as to cut the extremists of from popular support. No amount of shouting, or fighting, from the West will ever be effective against those who wish to destroy us -- but if their own friends and families protest, that might make the difference.
/Didn't release it enough imo. /
/Oh and by the way your pathetic attempt of an insult doesn't work on me. /
tony
can you please identify the 'attempt at insult' in this - pathetic or otherwise
/////
tony and aog
I get it now - last night's disturbances were just a therapy session for a bunch of edl skinheads
rather selfish isn't it when the police are trying to deal with a murder enquiry?////
/Oh and by the way your pathetic attempt of an insult doesn't work on me. /
tony
can you please identify the 'attempt at insult' in this - pathetic or otherwise
/////
tony and aog
I get it now - last night's disturbances were just a therapy session for a bunch of edl skinheads
rather selfish isn't it when the police are trying to deal with a murder enquiry?////
Davethedog
AOG
/// The EDL allow themselves to be manipulated by the murdering scum and attack the innocent, if they had killed a policeman and they had idea what injury they would cause puts them, and yo, exactly in the same league. ///
Yes but they didn't, did they? and that is the great difference.
But if they had injured or killed a policeman or anyone else for that matter, then I would be the first to condemn them and demand that they faced the full force of the law.
AOG
/// The EDL allow themselves to be manipulated by the murdering scum and attack the innocent, if they had killed a policeman and they had idea what injury they would cause puts them, and yo, exactly in the same league. ///
Yes but they didn't, did they? and that is the great difference.
But if they had injured or killed a policeman or anyone else for that matter, then I would be the first to condemn them and demand that they faced the full force of the law.
Ludwig, //Unfortunately I suspect that wouldn't stop the killing either. The different sects would happily continue blowing each other up, as they are doing in Iraq and elsewhere. //
That's true - but they're killing their own for different reasons. Those battles have no fundamental bearing on their war with the west.
That's true - but they're killing their own for different reasons. Those battles have no fundamental bearing on their war with the west.
AOG "Yes but they didn't, did they? and that is the great difference" but they didn't know that when they threw the missiles, no difference at all.
In all my time on this board I cannot recall any instance of condemnation for these facists, from you.
Who were they showing thier anger against, these brave patriots, hiding their identities. Scaring the innocent attacking the police.
Who exactly were they angry against?
In all my time on this board I cannot recall any instance of condemnation for these facists, from you.
Who were they showing thier anger against, these brave patriots, hiding their identities. Scaring the innocent attacking the police.
Who exactly were they angry against?
Andy...these Muslims hate us so much because, some of them at least, want to continue to shoot little girls in the head, who want to go to school. Girls going to school is a simple concept that the rest of the civilised world have managed to get its head around for many years now.
The supporters of the Taliban are backward, uneducated morons...how on earth are we supposed to have a dialogue with people like that ? If we promise to allow them to continue to persecute their own kind, will they then go away ?.........Doesn't seem likely to me.
The supporters of the Taliban are backward, uneducated morons...how on earth are we supposed to have a dialogue with people like that ? If we promise to allow them to continue to persecute their own kind, will they then go away ?.........Doesn't seem likely to me.
Davethedog
/// And what would you be saying if this community "released" thier anger? ///
It would be understandable if they knew for certain who the killer was, but not simply because a white man was seen running down the street.
Interesting this one though, an Asian gentleman is killed, a white man is seen running so the police admit racism was a ‘significant line of inquiry.
/// Yesterday the officer leading the investigation into the death of the retired baker admitted racism was a ‘significant line of inquiry’. ///
Why is it mainly a racist attack, when the police often deny the same when it is a white person that is killed by a black or Asian person?
Along with this,
/// ‘People in the area are saying it must be a white supremacist group. You don’t really get white people here, but the man caught on film was definitely white.’ ///
So just because not many white people get in a certain area of a predominately white country (how dare they) they must be part of a white supremacist group??????????
You just couldn't make it up.
/// And what would you be saying if this community "released" thier anger? ///
It would be understandable if they knew for certain who the killer was, but not simply because a white man was seen running down the street.
Interesting this one though, an Asian gentleman is killed, a white man is seen running so the police admit racism was a ‘significant line of inquiry.
/// Yesterday the officer leading the investigation into the death of the retired baker admitted racism was a ‘significant line of inquiry’. ///
Why is it mainly a racist attack, when the police often deny the same when it is a white person that is killed by a black or Asian person?
Along with this,
/// ‘People in the area are saying it must be a white supremacist group. You don’t really get white people here, but the man caught on film was definitely white.’ ///
So just because not many white people get in a certain area of a predominately white country (how dare they) they must be part of a white supremacist group??????????
You just couldn't make it up.
Naomi // That's true - but they're killing their own for different reasons. Those battles have no fundamental bearing on their war with the west. //
I agree. I'm just making the point that there's essentially no end to violence that's driven by this kind of religion inspired tribalism and hatred. There's no dialogue to be had, and there's no appeasing it.
We're talking about the kind of mentality that drives grown men to shoot a little girl in the head for wanting to go to school, or see a schoolteacher put to death for calling a teddy bear the wrong name. People who think you can deal logically with that are very naive or deluded.
I agree. I'm just making the point that there's essentially no end to violence that's driven by this kind of religion inspired tribalism and hatred. There's no dialogue to be had, and there's no appeasing it.
We're talking about the kind of mentality that drives grown men to shoot a little girl in the head for wanting to go to school, or see a schoolteacher put to death for calling a teddy bear the wrong name. People who think you can deal logically with that are very naive or deluded.
Yet again you cherry pick an anecdotal quote and post it as fact.
The people of Birmingham had exactly the same reason as the EDL to take to the streets, but didn't why? because there was no target, no one to point at. Thereby the Muslim community showed that they are much smarter and less barbaric than the EDL.
The two scum are as representative of the muslim community as the EDL are of white Britain.
To quote Daved Cameron "Terrorism aims to turn people each other. Bigots read from the terrorists' script"
The people of Birmingham had exactly the same reason as the EDL to take to the streets, but didn't why? because there was no target, no one to point at. Thereby the Muslim community showed that they are much smarter and less barbaric than the EDL.
The two scum are as representative of the muslim community as the EDL are of white Britain.
To quote Daved Cameron "Terrorism aims to turn people each other. Bigots read from the terrorists' script"
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