Who Brok The Enigma Code Turing Or Rejewski

[fender62]

i have a polish friend who says its was poland who broke the code and not turing.

[andy-hughes]

The perceived wisdom is that Alan Turing and team broke the code, but these things rarely happen in isolation.

It is quite possible that another country's team were also breaking the code, but may have not achieved the recognition that Turing got, including a pardon for his crime (at the time) of being homosexual.

[Mamyalynne]

Interesting read here.

https://www.nature.com/articles/d41586-018-06149-y

[fender62]

thanks, he's adamant perhaps patriotic and nowt wrong with that, but i prefer facts, as a joint effort no problem, accolades underserved makes me think.

[ichkeria]

The Poles’ contribution was essential in actually recovering early machines which greatly helped Turing and co’s work

[davebro]

I think a machine was recovered from a German U-boat (with code books?) that also helped. (In a film the Yanks claimed credit.)

[fender62]

davebro, yanks think they won the war, forgot about pearl harbour that day...let alone vietnam, another story though.

[sanmac]

The Americans did not win the war, but if the Americans had not entered into it the Allies would have lost the war.

[Radagast]

From what I remember of Turing's biography, the Poles had partially cracked the code and they passed on what they'd learnt to the British. That helped Turing.

[Hopkirk]

From my memory, I heard that the Poles broke an earlier simpler version of Enigma many years before.

[jim360]

Rejewski was first to break into any kind of Enigma code, and his work was ground-breaking and often tragically overlooked. But, as best I understand it, the Enigma Code had changed by the time WWII rolled around, and required "re-breaking" -- also, Turing's team broke into other codes like the Lorenz Cipher that Rejewski had never touched.

Also, while the Polish mathematicians handed over a lot of their work -- and, incidentally, were then insultingly given the task of breaking basically the simplest codes in existence, a complete disgrace -- but the Bletchley team ended up using different methods, that were undoubtedly helped by the Polish effort but extended and improved upon them. It's likely, though, that even without the leg-up, Bletchley would still have broken into Enigma at some point, probably a year or two later.

In that sense it's not unlike the question of who invented the lightbulb. A lot of people did, sometimes independently, other times building on previous work, and it can be difficult to say who was first to invent what we mean by a lightbulb. Swan, Edison, Humphry Davy are just three names in the mix.

[Ellipsis]

This is a fair summary of the early days of Enigma:

https://www.history.co.uk/articles/the-polish-cryptographers-who-cracked-the-enigma-code

However, it's important to remember that Enigma was a moving target. The work of the Poles does not diminish the work of Bletchley Park, and vice versa. It is still fair to say that Bletchley Park reduced the war by two years. The Poles didn't do that, they couldn't, because they'd been invaded.

[Ellipsis]

Also, let's not forget Tommy Flowers ...

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tommy_Flowers

[fender62]

jim360, thanks..im just trying to put in words not to offend my friend as to who, i suppose i could say..thye helped ? but were not responsible as the code changed.

[gulliver1]

Fender 16.56 The Brits would have been wearing Jackboots and swasticas if the Americans had not entered the war , without them and the rest of the allies britain would have lost big time.

[Peter Pedant]

The perceived wisdom is that Rejewski and two others and team broke the code, and it happened isolation.

Garlinski Intercept (1979) on the ultra secret intelligence tangle - not that tangled. I hadnt realised that it was still en jeu. They fled to dear old blighty - one drowned, and the other two were or werent allowed to work on Enigma.

Dilwyn Dilly Knox achieved a paper solution - which wasnt much use.

Quite a varied literature on this. Bertrand who turned himself into the Gestapo, ( they were looking for him) probably DID tell them the codes had been broken - clearly the French aren't gonna say - foo mais oui! [ fou! mais oui - c'est-a-dire!). Donitz ( six rotor wheels, four wheels at a time, changes over 12 h ) certainly behaved as if he thought it might be compromised

[Peter Pedant]

blimey - there is an answer you know - go out and read it

I hadnt realised that the combined might of AB cd make such a mess of a straightforward event

[Peter Pedant]

I suppose I cd say they helped
I suppose you could say they were the first....

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Marian_Rejewski

I mean foo words fail me for once

[Mamyalynne]

Words fail you?

Is that a promise?

[Peter Pedant]

He's adamant, patriotic.... and correct.

Altho the literature now (*) specifies three, Garlinski and two, in 1930 the polish military marched wivda Dean into the senior maths class in Warsaw. They asked the students to make a supreme sacrifice in the name of the Polish Republic - and they all said " Yes my captain" and the whole class was drafted into the Cypher Bureau ( at Pyry ) - and set to. Jim360 - the big three realised that combinatorics were the way in. Perforated sheets, the Bomba and rodding were rendered useless by later modifications.
Doesnt anyone know this ?

(*)Rozycki and Zyglaski - sprinkle accents on consonants and vowels ad lib. I can now understand when I say my farder was in a POW camp for five years, why they say - "foo a death camp, why didnt they gas him den" - - - Essex, deaf camp

[Peter Pedant]

thank you for that sincere concern Mama
as you can read I have recovered