Religion

[Headless Rat]

My friend's view is that there should be no organised religion as it is used as a tool for violence.He said that you can't blame people (eg suicide bombers) for their actions (killing innocent bystanders) if they have been brought up with the wrong beliefs (ie that their "God" wants them to do this) from day one.. My view is that religion is quintessentially good and to do away with it would get rid of so much more good than bad.We both agree, however, that it is people's misinterpretation and fanaticism that makes religion so dangerous and controversial. Doesn't anyone agree thesedays that religion is a positive force/ thing and that it is in the control of the human being what they do or do not do?

[jake-the-peg]

It's certainly hard to see Catholicism as a positive force when you see the spead of Aids in sub-saharan Africa, population crises and hear celibate old men in Rome telling people contraception is a sin against God!

[Pippa68]

In my view it is like giving someone anything ~ in the wrong hands it can be disastrous..eg a kitchen knife is something millions of people have in their homes..only a few use them to maim or kill.

The suicide bombers you mention were probably brought up with the same view as the majority of Muslims ~ to live peacefully. The fact that they were led astray was down to personal choice. If you are a religious person ie believe in God, you will be taught that He has given us life and we make of it what we will. Choice is one of the gifts..we can go one way or another.

[Pippa68]

Cont:

I am not religious, but know of many people who are and with different faiths. I know of a couple of Evangelical extremists & I enjoy a debate with them. However, they are basically 'good' people who don't go around murdering folk. The others I have full respect for..it makes them happy having this faith & sometimes I do envy their passion.

The fact that there are millions of people having a faith which gives them joy without hurting others cannot go unnoticed :o)

[Pippa68]

That took a long time to post...I keep getting timed out!

I also agree with jake.

[yesmadam]

Personally I don't understand these people. Why don't they have "faith" in themselves? why believe in something not proven, nor ever will be.

[Octavius]

Yes, and you have answered your own question.

Most people use religious belief for good purposes, whilst the fanatics will use it for personal ambition and gain, regardless of the effect � and this encompasses all religions. In the wrong hands it can be extremely destructive and becomes more of a moral judgement/issue.

People need some form of hope & faith and this stems from beliefs and superstitions long before the formation of organised religion, it is in the nature of humankind. Alongside this, you would have good omens, and bad omens and angry gods which (the priests would convince the tribe) would need to be appeased - consider the extensive use of human sacrifice in prehistoric & pre-organised-religion times.

People who state that they are atheist, agnostic or simply non-theist, I believe, are primarily anti organised religion (usually christian) and generally will have some form of faith/belief/destiny embedded within their invariant makeup.

[Octavius]

Jake - I am a Roman Catholic and I take personal responsibility for my actions. If I was promiscuous and irresponsible in my personal life and ended up contracting HIV or Aids through these actions, how could I blame this on a Pope? Get real.

[jake-the-peg]

Well I'm an atheist Octavius and I certainly don't have any faith or destiny in my world view!

I think you oversimplify the atheist position it's much deeper than just rejecting organised religion. Most athiests I know reject religions and concepts of soul or afterlife as no more than superstition or comforting self deceptions

[yesmadam]

from a very early age, if ever I asked about religion? I was told 'they' were only in it for the money.
Do I need another label? no.

[jake-the-peg]

Why don't you get real Octavious.

There's nothing wrong with sex! - Don't you think that an all powerful all knowing God with a complete view of space and time is really interested in what a bunch of ape-like creatures get up to in the bedroom!

[brionon]

Wow it must be wonderful to be Octavius and know what other people think. Re Religion;if you are taught that followers of your religion are going to heaven and the rest of us are doomed to eternal fire,how can you ,also, respect us ?

[Octavius]

Jake - Yes I agree with you, sex is fantastic and I enjoy it (almost) every day.

if I caught Aids (God forbid) and regardless of this went around the country having unprotected sex with several women and spread the disease, would you blame the vatican, or me for my own selfish actions?

[Octavius]

brionon, I agree with you on one thing. It is great to be Octavius, for so many reasons.

[naz_nomad]

I live next door to a vicar ...what an arrogant, ignorat to$$er he is ...if that's religion, you can stick it

[WaldoMcFroog]

Octavius, you characterise the AIDS issue thus: " If I was promiscuous and irresponsible in my personal life and ended up contracting HIV or Aids through these actions, how could I blame this on a Pope?"

Okay, what if your partner was promiscuous and irresponsible and then you got it because your religion proscribes the use of condoms?

More importantly, the church knows that AIDS is rife and that the use of prophyactics would be a significant weapon in fighting this disease. To condemn thousands of partners to a life in poverty followed by an ignominious death and thousands of innocent children to be born with this horrific disease is manifestly a sin of ommission by any definition of the word.

I believe that Christians sometimes use the expression 'What would Jesus do?' when thinking about various scenarios. In this case, I imagine he'd disband the entire church in disgust.

[Headless Rat]

Waldo McFrog, I think the AIDS topic raised is a bit flimsy to be honest. If people had respect for themselves and just slept with people they deeply cared about and were loyal to, I doubt there would be the same spread of AIDS and other STIs. My question really is, should we blame uneducated people, ie people who have been brainwashed, for the bad and evil they perpetrate?

[Supernick]

Religion is merely the easiest and most visible target for what is a global epidemic of intolerance for other people. Racism, sexism, ageism, and cultural divides etc.

Intolerance for others will be the seed of our destruction in whatever format it takes.

[beryllium]

Jake brought the subject of AIDS and the catholic "no condoms" argument with Africa in mind.

I agree whole heartedly with you Jake.

I dont know if the spread of AIDS in Africa is solely down to the Church and their condom ban, but I'm sure they are partly to blame for it.

Does that really come down to stupidity? or the inability to buy protection there because of the Catholic belief?, btw, I am fully aware that not all Catholics follow that belief...

[jake-the-peg]

Oh I know an awful lot of "A la carte Catholics" who ignore the church over this one.

Another good one is Homosexuality

How is it that a God who is the personification of good would subject to eternal tortures two men (or women) who sleep together?

I'd have a lot more respect for religions if they'd just keep their distainful noses out of our bedrooms!

[joko]

since when is having sex with someone you don't love not having respect for yourself?

you see, it is that attitude that has made sex into something to be ashamed of, instead of simply an enjoyable, healthy and normal thing to do, just like every other animal on the planet - and whether you like it or not, it is religion that has ingrained that in our psyches.

the sooner we escape all this pointless guilt and fear we will be a happier species.