'Converts' To Christianity - Continued

[naomi24]

A discussion instigated by Khandro in 'News' has turned into a debate on religion but is now almost off the front page. If anyone is interested in pursuing this further, since this is a more appropriate place to continue the discussion, a link to the original is here.

https://www.theanswerbank.co.uk/News/Question1773425-8.html#answer-13075590

[HeavensToBetsy]

// They were told not to eat of the tree. Their disobedience showed their choice. //

It does make you wonder why God bothered to put the tree there in the first place. Whatever happened to 'leading us from temptation' and 'delivering us from evil'?

I guess it depends on whether or not you take the account of the Fall literally, or as an allegory about what happens when man turns away from God. If one takes it literally, one would have to take an enormous leap of faith to accept as true a story about a talking snake. And if we don't take it literally, does that mean that God will damn us for ever? Frankly, the Old Testament God comes across as so vindictive, paranoid, narcissistic and cruel that I'd rather not spend eternity with him, even if it's on offer.

But if we reject the creation narrative as a fairy story, does that mean that we have to write the whole Bible off? Jesus himself was happy to contradict the Old Testament teaching of 'an eye for an eye' in Matthew's Gospel when he told his followers to turn the other cheek. I'm not sure I agree with all Jesus' teaching, but it makes more sense than much of the Old Testament.

[naomi24]

Khandro, //Kafka once claimed he understood the Fall of Man better than anyone else; a bold claim, but that's Kafka, innit? //

And still you're hiding behind other people. It's pathetic, it really is.

[Khandro]

HTB; The biblical story is a mythical representation of awareness of self, leading to self-consciousness & separation.
In Eden, the tree of life is an existential, not a botanical specimen.
The snake, well, you can probably figure out for yourself.

[naomi24]

Oh my! :o)

[vulcan42]

goodlife, when I read the bible I react to what is written, which, after all we're told, is the word of God. The problem with insight and discernment is different people can interpret what they read in different ways, what makes you think you have the one and only correct answer. Why is your God so vindictive that having made man, wants to punish him? Man is told not to eat from the tree of knowledge of good and evil, so why did God want to deny them that knowledge when later he gave them the ten commandments? I reiterate, I react to what's written, not to what I think might be written between the lines.

[archibaldy]

/// The biblical story is a mythical representation of awareness of self ///

"This is a work of fiction. Any similarity to actual persons, living or dead, or actual events, is purely coincidental" - that sort of thing?

[Peter Pedant]

// but it makes more sense than much of the Old Testament.//

this is why we can the later books the New testament or the new covenant - or (he kaine diatheke)
Council of Jerusalem - AD 50- are we Jews or something else?
Answer something else - christians - word first used AD 62 Antioch

thank god some straight forward fact and not
foo all this is made up by guy whom we dont know
and other AB ya-ya

more please

[Peter Pedant]

Sozza standard AB ya-ya
sozza standard tedious AB ya-ya

[Khandro]

archi : //This is a work of fiction. Any similarity to actual persons, living or dead, or actual events, is purely coincidental" - that sort of thing?//

No far from it, the discovery of self-consciousness in the story of the Fall of Man, which perpetuates human isolation and separation, happens all the time, throughout history and now in the present. It is, if you like, the existential human condition.

[naomi24]

Tripe.

[Khandro]

and onions

[naomi24]

That too if you like.

[idiosyncrasy]

Having read through this thread I find it interesting.
As a Believer myself, I find the Bible very interesting and informative.
Vulcan stated that discernment and understanding can vary from person to person. I agree, but I also believe you need to take into consideration the Holy Spirit. The Bible was inspired by the Holy Spirit which directed certain people to write down their thoughts. Therefore, my belief is that you would need to invoke the Holy Spirit to help with interpretation.
I know such ones as Naillit and Naomi will scoff. That’s what they are prone to do with anything they have no understanding of.
But I see from various comments that there are those who don’t scoff and will take the time to give reasonably sensible answers.
Goodlife uses the Bible a lot. So it is obvious he believes it 100%. I read and study my Bible a lot.
The Genesis account gives a plausible explanation of Life and also man’s choice. Some say it was cruel of God. But Adam was given 1000 years of life before he died.
But take a modern-day example. Who of you as parents, warn their children of the consequences of disobedience? They warn of punishment if they fail to obey. More often than not they obey because they don’t want to lose favour with their parents. Those that do disobey end up having to face the consequence. Maybe not immediately, but perhaps in the future. Take for example drugs. Those who ignore more likely to die from overdose.
So no, God was not cruel. He was warning his children, like any loving father of the consequences of disobedience. He could have struck them down , but no, he gave them time to have a life and children and they died naturally of old age.

[naomi24]

idiosyncrasy, //The Bible was inspired by the Holy Spirit which directed certain people to write down their thoughts.//

Rather than 'scoff', as you say I do, I attempt to meet unsubstantiated claims such as yours above with rational argument, and that in this case would be that there is no justification for that claim.

//God was not cruel. He was warning his children, like any loving father of the consequences of disobedience.//

I don’t know any loving father who condemns his children to death for disobedience. Do you?

[Khandro]

naomi, God didn't kill anybody, people killed people, some believed it was at God's behest. Some people do so today.

[naomi24]

//naomi, God didn't kill anybody//

Oh yes he did, Khandro. He killed thousands. Read your bible.

[Khandro]

I've read my bible, & HE didn't kill anyone, allegedly he gave instructions to others to commit such acts, but I don't accept that as being literally true.

I believe What is happening today by the jihadists mirrors exactly what happened in biblical times, that is to say people carried out savage acts believing it would put them in good stead with God, and it didn't only happen there, look at the Aztecs for example, (or even the Greeks)

[naomi24]

Khandro, two words. The flood.

There are more.

[andy-hughes]

Khandro - // ... but I don't accept that as being literally true. //

Like every other fervent, you cherry-pick what suits your views, and dismiss the rest.

[Khandro]

AH // you cherry-pick what suits your views, and dismiss the rest.//

Yep, that's correct; just they way you pick out all the insignificantly small 'BAD' bits, & ignore all the spiritually uplifting good ones.

As someone who claims he has read the bible in its entirety, you should be aware of just what a small proportion of the complete work you refer to.