sins to send you to hell (FAO keyplus especially)

[kryptic]

In this thread http://www.theanswerb.../Question1013029.html
I asked // Is hell a just punishment? (an eternity of suffering for finite sins) //
keyplus replied

// Now to answer your question in SIMPLE words.

1 - yes for certain sins. //

birdie responded with
// Are there sins for which you don't go to Hell? Can you give me an example of a sin that doesn't condemn you to Hell? //

To my knowledge, keyplus hasnt responded yet to birdies Q, just evaded the Q.
So I will ask, what sin DOESNT condemm me to an eternity of suffering at the hands of Allaha (or Jehovah, jesus, zeus et all)

[mike11111]

Now you're being just plain silly. You need to continue your argument with Almighty God, not me; he's much wiser than I am.

[birdie1971]

Cowtipper - “The UK is a textbook example of what morals were like before Christ. Rape, looting, killing, burning. Went on for centuries didn't it? One tribe kills another. Is that your idea of civilization?”

That is civilization! I'm not saying it's preferable to a Utopian paradise but it is reality. In fact, the very things you seem to be suggesting have been reduced by the teachings of Jesus are still going on today in predominantly Christian nations.

In the Democratic Republic of the Congo (a country with a Christian population of approximately 90%), it is estimated, “... that 400,000 females aged 15-49 were raped over a 12-month period in 2006 and 2007.


From the BBC today:

http://www.bbc.co.uk/...world-africa-13367277

[birdie1971]

Mike11111 - “Now you're being just plain silly.”

On the contrary, I'm being very serious. If the 'laws' of God are so logically flawed, then there's a problem isn't there?


/// You need to continue your argument with Almighty God, not me; he's much wiser than I am.///

I'm going to have to disagree with you again on that one!

[Cowtipper]

"In fact, the very things you seem to be suggesting have been reduced by the teachings of Jesus are still going on today in predominantly Christian nations."

These nations? What country are you from Birdie?
http://en.wikipedia.o...tian_distribution.png

[mike11111]

To God, be the glory, great things hath He done,
So loved He the world that he gave us His Son,
Who yielded His life, an atonement for sin,
And opened the life gates that all might come in.

[mike11111]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ymrZO1PZbU4

[mike11111]

http://www.godtube.com/watch/?v=DKD7WPNX

[mike11111]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6X1xH9ZjwP8

[Cowtipper]

On the slavery thing:
To me slavery is neither moral nor immoral; its just a thing. Mankind is moral or immoral. Jesus didn't concern himself with things but with the betterment of society. A tree doesn't appear- it grows from a seed. One idea is just a seed. It took 1700 years but eventually the seed grew into a tree.

[NOX]

cowtipper - 'Slavery isn't moral or immoral- just a thing'?????
Slavery is one of the most abhorrent and totally immoral thing ever, surely you can see that?

[birdie1971]

Cowtipper -

“... To me slavery is neither moral nor immoral; its just a thing...”

Slavery is 'just a thing' is it? Presumably by 'just a thing' you must mean that it's an action carried out by a person (or group) that directly affects another person (or group).

If slavery is 'just a thing' then so too is murder. As are rape and assault. These acts, couched in the same way you describe slavery, are just 'things'. And these 'things' by your own admission are neither immoral or moral; which begs the question – how can you possibly claim that a person's morality is derived from the teachings of Jesus when you consider slavery to be neither one thing nor another?

Sorry Cowtipper, but your argument that slavery is neither moral nor immoral is weak to put it mildly.

[birdie1971]

Cowtipper - “... Jesus didn't concern himself with things but with the betterment of society. A tree doesn't appear- it grows from a seed. One idea is just a seed. It took 1700 years but eventually the seed grew into a tree.”

Jesus didn't concern himself with what 'things'? As an answer, that's quite possibly one of the most vague I have ever read.

Are you feeling all right?

[birdie1971]

Mike11111

Knock it off mate! Otherwise I'll post a load of Richard Dawkins and Christopher Hitchens videos...

;-)

[birdie1971]

Cowtipper - “.... These nations? What country are you from Birdie?”

I'm from the UK.

I was commenting on the fact that despite Christian teachings, murders, rapes, etc. are prevalent in every country on Earth. Some of these countries are non-Christian, some have a roughly even spread of different religions and some are predominantly Christian.

Discounting the non-Christian and the largely mixed religion countries, it doesn't follow that Christian teachings in predominantly Christian countries leads to a marked reduction in rapes, murders, assault, etc. in that country. In fact, independent studies have shown that Christians are no more 'moral' that atheists.

[Cowtipper]

"Slavery is one of the most abhorrent and totally immoral thing ever"
I would not own a slave in any period of time. Nor would I allow myself to be one. I'd do everything in my power to free one.

I'm not talking about slavery right now. I'm talking about slavery as a mechanism of how mankind created something out of nothing.

Serfdom and indentured servitude are both forms of slavery. Slaves in some societies had much better lives than un-landed free men. A free man without land or means can only be a beggar or a thief.

Without slavery there wouldn't be civilization as we know it. Slavery is an economic system and the earliest form of cheap energy. Energy is the foundation for civilization. Was it immoral for a man in ancient Greece to own a slave? No. Is it immoral today? Yes. So to me its neither.

[beso]

Cowtipper shows why the religious are dangerous people.

[Cowtipper]

You're looking at things from too narrow of a view. You have to look at where we started and how we're going to get back (or whatever you want to call it). According to faith we started in a perfect place. In theory we want to return to a perfect place. Utopia in a sense. If you want to get from point A to point B over the course of humankind there will be processes for the advancement of man.
Wars are fought, people will die. When someone gets drafted into the Army they become a slave. If they die in a war then their personal sacrifice has hopefully provided for the betterment of man. Yes, it sucks for the individual but hopefully advances civilization to where one day its not necessary.

[birdie1971]

Cowtipper - “... I would not own a slave in any period of time. Nor would I allow myself to be one...”

And how would you prevent yourself from being a slave?

[mike11111]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sQeIGbKqiw8

Look at all these sad, delusioned people, devoid of logic.

[birdie1971]

Cowtipper:

I'm afraid that you have blundered into a logical cul-de-sac and that you are, in fact, talking complete rubbish. Your say that, “... Slaves in some societies had much better lives than un-landed free men. A free man without land or means can only be a beggar or a thief...”.

Apart from the fact you seem unable to think of a profession that doesn't require land ownership such as entertainers, musicians, apprentices, etc., your assertion that some slaves had better lives than some other people who were not classified officially as slaves does not make slavery virtuous nor desirable.

It is ludicrous to suggest that because some slaves 'had it good' or better than their non-enslaved counterparts, slavery is not an immoral practice.