Quizzes & Puzzles7 mins ago
sins to send you to hell (FAO keyplus especially)
110 Answers
In this thread http://www.theanswerb.../Question1013029.html
I asked // Is hell a just punishment? (an eternity of suffering for finite sins) //
keyplus replied
// Now to answer your question in SIMPLE words.
1 - yes for certain sins. //
birdie responded with
// Are there sins for which you don't go to Hell? Can you give me an example of a sin that doesn't condemn you to Hell? //
To my knowledge, keyplus hasnt responded yet to birdies Q, just evaded the Q.
So I will ask, what sin DOESNT condemm me to an eternity of suffering at the hands of Allaha (or Jehovah, jesus, zeus et all)
I asked // Is hell a just punishment? (an eternity of suffering for finite sins) //
keyplus replied
// Now to answer your question in SIMPLE words.
1 - yes for certain sins. //
birdie responded with
// Are there sins for which you don't go to Hell? Can you give me an example of a sin that doesn't condemn you to Hell? //
To my knowledge, keyplus hasnt responded yet to birdies Q, just evaded the Q.
So I will ask, what sin DOESNT condemm me to an eternity of suffering at the hands of Allaha (or Jehovah, jesus, zeus et all)
Answers
Best Answer
No best answer has yet been selected by kryptic. Once a best answer has been selected, it will be shown here.
For more on marking an answer as the "Best Answer", please visit our FAQ.
Keyplus - “... Islam clearly states that anyone who believes in Just one true God will not go to hell forever. They may be put there for their other worldly sins as punishment for a limited period of time. Just like people are put in prison for wrong doings.”
In the Christian religion there is never, ever any escape from Hell. It is by definition, an eternal torment and the ultimate prison.
You are suggesting that in the Islamic faith, a person sent to Hell can, one day, get out. Please can you post scriptural 'evidence' to back up your claim?
In the Christian religion there is never, ever any escape from Hell. It is by definition, an eternal torment and the ultimate prison.
You are suggesting that in the Islamic faith, a person sent to Hell can, one day, get out. Please can you post scriptural 'evidence' to back up your claim?
"Cowtipper - “Religion puts God first. Communism puts the state first. The atheist puts themselves first. Right?”
Wrong. Because it depends on the individual atheist. Personally, I would put the human race first as a general principal. "
Let me rephrase then:
Christians believe in the morals set forth by Jesus.
Communism relies on the morals put forward by Marx.
The atheist relies on his/her own personal morals.
Wrong. Because it depends on the individual atheist. Personally, I would put the human race first as a general principal. "
Let me rephrase then:
Christians believe in the morals set forth by Jesus.
Communism relies on the morals put forward by Marx.
The atheist relies on his/her own personal morals.
First... I have odd views about heaven and hell, so take all of this from a personal perspective. Second... I'm not an expert. Third a simple google search will explain this in better terms than I can but make sure you read the chapter and understand the root and circumstances (keep it in context) and interpret your own translations from the root Hebrew and Greek.
Ezekiel 28:
You were anointed as a guardian cherub, for so I ordained you. You were on the holy mount of God; you walked among the fiery stones.
Talking about Satan already walking around brimstone before he fell from grace.
Ezekiel 28:18
By your many sins and dishonest trade you have desecrated your sanctuaries. So I made a fire come out from you, and it consumed you, and I reduced you to ashes on the ground in the sight of all who were watching. [19] All the nations who knew you are appalled at you; you have come to a horrible end and will be no more.’”
Satan is tossed into a lake of fire according to Revelations and is no more. Everything tossed in the lake will be consumed "will be no more".
Daniel 12:2
Multitudes who sleep in the dust of the earth will awake: some to everlasting life, others to shame and everlasting contempt.
Daniel 12:13
As for you, go your way till the end. You will rest, and then at the end of the days you will rise to receive your allotted inheritance.
We don't go to heaven when we die, nor to hell.
Matthew 13:
[47] “Once again, the kingdom of heaven is like a net that was let down into the lake and caught all kinds of fish. [48] When it was full, the fishermen pulled it up on the shore. Then they sat down and collected the good fish in baskets, but threw the bad away. [49] This is how it will be at the end of the age. The angels will come and separate the wicked from the righteous [50] and th
Ezekiel 28:
You were anointed as a guardian cherub, for so I ordained you. You were on the holy mount of God; you walked among the fiery stones.
Talking about Satan already walking around brimstone before he fell from grace.
Ezekiel 28:18
By your many sins and dishonest trade you have desecrated your sanctuaries. So I made a fire come out from you, and it consumed you, and I reduced you to ashes on the ground in the sight of all who were watching. [19] All the nations who knew you are appalled at you; you have come to a horrible end and will be no more.’”
Satan is tossed into a lake of fire according to Revelations and is no more. Everything tossed in the lake will be consumed "will be no more".
Daniel 12:2
Multitudes who sleep in the dust of the earth will awake: some to everlasting life, others to shame and everlasting contempt.
Daniel 12:13
As for you, go your way till the end. You will rest, and then at the end of the days you will rise to receive your allotted inheritance.
We don't go to heaven when we die, nor to hell.
Matthew 13:
[47] “Once again, the kingdom of heaven is like a net that was let down into the lake and caught all kinds of fish. [48] When it was full, the fishermen pulled it up on the shore. Then they sat down and collected the good fish in baskets, but threw the bad away. [49] This is how it will be at the end of the age. The angels will come and separate the wicked from the righteous [50] and th
... from the righteous [50] and throw them into the blazing furnace, where there will be weeping and gnashing of teeth.
If I get tossed into a furnace I'll weep and gnash my teeth too.
John 3:12
I have spoken to you of earthly things and you do not believe; how then will you believe if I speak of heavenly things? [13] No one has ever gone into heaven except the one who came from heaven.
Isaiah 66
[22] “As the new heavens and the new earth that I make will endure before me,” declares the LORD, “so will your name and descendants endure. [23] From one New Moon to another and from one Sabbath to another, all mankind will come and bow down before me,” says the LORD. [24] “And they will go out and look on the dead bodies of those who rebelled against me; the worms that eat them will not die, the fire that burns them will not be quenched, and they will be loathsome to all mankind.”
The worms don't die and the fire won't die. Nothing in this says that people won't die.
Revalations 14:
[9] A third angel followed them and said in a loud voice: “If anyone worships the beast and its image and receives its mark on their forehead or on their hand, [10] they, too, will drink the wine of God’s fury, which has been poured full strength into the cup of his wrath. They will be tormented with burning sulfur in the presence of the holy angels and of the Lamb. [11] And the smoke of their torment will rise for ever and ever. There will be no rest day or night for those who worship the beast and its image, or for anyone who receives the mark of its name.”
[13] Then I heard a voice from heaven say, “Write this: Blessed are the dead who die in the Lord from now on.”
“Yes,” says the Spirit, “they will rest from their labor, for their deeds will follow them.”
[11]- the smoke rises forever
If I get tossed into a furnace I'll weep and gnash my teeth too.
John 3:12
I have spoken to you of earthly things and you do not believe; how then will you believe if I speak of heavenly things? [13] No one has ever gone into heaven except the one who came from heaven.
Isaiah 66
[22] “As the new heavens and the new earth that I make will endure before me,” declares the LORD, “so will your name and descendants endure. [23] From one New Moon to another and from one Sabbath to another, all mankind will come and bow down before me,” says the LORD. [24] “And they will go out and look on the dead bodies of those who rebelled against me; the worms that eat them will not die, the fire that burns them will not be quenched, and they will be loathsome to all mankind.”
The worms don't die and the fire won't die. Nothing in this says that people won't die.
Revalations 14:
[9] A third angel followed them and said in a loud voice: “If anyone worships the beast and its image and receives its mark on their forehead or on their hand, [10] they, too, will drink the wine of God’s fury, which has been poured full strength into the cup of his wrath. They will be tormented with burning sulfur in the presence of the holy angels and of the Lamb. [11] And the smoke of their torment will rise for ever and ever. There will be no rest day or night for those who worship the beast and its image, or for anyone who receives the mark of its name.”
[13] Then I heard a voice from heaven say, “Write this: Blessed are the dead who die in the Lord from now on.”
“Yes,” says the Spirit, “they will rest from their labor, for their deeds will follow them.”
[11]- the smoke rises forever
(cont.)
[11]- the smoke rises forever- there will be no rest compared to those that will rest.
If you get your earthly body tossed into a lake of fire do you still exist? No. Nor will you benefit from your deeds. See above.
I spent more than a little time on this. Please quote [i]exact[/i] scripture where it says you'll live forever in a lake of fire. I'm tired of getting generalized questions.
So no, I don't believe we go to hell at all. You seem to have a lack of actual reading of what you're condemning.
[11]- the smoke rises forever- there will be no rest compared to those that will rest.
If you get your earthly body tossed into a lake of fire do you still exist? No. Nor will you benefit from your deeds. See above.
I spent more than a little time on this. Please quote [i]exact[/i] scripture where it says you'll live forever in a lake of fire. I'm tired of getting generalized questions.
So no, I don't believe we go to hell at all. You seem to have a lack of actual reading of what you're condemning.
Birdie not that it would make any change to the way you believe but still here is a verse from Quran (of course there are many Hadiths as well).
Quran 11:106. Those who are wretched shall be in the Fire: There will be for them therein (nothing but) the heaving of sighs and sobs:
Quran 11:107. They will dwell therein for all the time that the heavens and the earth endure, except as thy Lord willeth: for thy Lord is the (sure) accomplisher of what He planneth.
According to scholars “except as thy lord willeth” is for the people who did believe in God as one but committed serious crimes or sins against humanity.
Quran 11:106. Those who are wretched shall be in the Fire: There will be for them therein (nothing but) the heaving of sighs and sobs:
Quran 11:107. They will dwell therein for all the time that the heavens and the earth endure, except as thy Lord willeth: for thy Lord is the (sure) accomplisher of what He planneth.
According to scholars “except as thy lord willeth” is for the people who did believe in God as one but committed serious crimes or sins against humanity.
Keyplus –
Thanks for your straightforward answer.
The reason I asked the question is because it was my understanding that Hell is eternal. It is without end and final. However, as you pointed out, some people believe that under certain circumstances it is possible to be 'released' early. I have done some research on this matter and it seems that opinion is divided. Some Muslims insist that it is eternal and that there is no chance of escape or reprieve and some (like yourself) believe the opposite.
As you rightly pointed out, it makes no difference to me whatsoever as I don't believe in such notions. However, what does interest me is that a simple concept such a this can't even be agreed upon by members of the same religion. It kind of makes a mockery of the whole 'the Koran is perfect' argument.
http://www.islamicinf...n-islam-jahannam.html
Thanks for your straightforward answer.
The reason I asked the question is because it was my understanding that Hell is eternal. It is without end and final. However, as you pointed out, some people believe that under certain circumstances it is possible to be 'released' early. I have done some research on this matter and it seems that opinion is divided. Some Muslims insist that it is eternal and that there is no chance of escape or reprieve and some (like yourself) believe the opposite.
As you rightly pointed out, it makes no difference to me whatsoever as I don't believe in such notions. However, what does interest me is that a simple concept such a this can't even be agreed upon by members of the same religion. It kind of makes a mockery of the whole 'the Koran is perfect' argument.
http://www.islamicinf...n-islam-jahannam.html
FAO Birdie (though it will fall on stony ground), Matt. 22 vv35 - 40.
Matthew 22:35 Then one of them, which was a lawyer, asked him a question, tempting him, and saying,
36 Master, which is the great commandment in the law?
37 Jesus said unto him, Thou shalt love the Lord thy God with all thy heart, and with all thy soul, and with all thy mind.
38 This is the first and great commandment.
39 And the second is like unto it, Thou shalt love thy neighbour as thyself.
40 On these two commandments hang all the law and the prophets.
Matthew 22:35 Then one of them, which was a lawyer, asked him a question, tempting him, and saying,
36 Master, which is the great commandment in the law?
37 Jesus said unto him, Thou shalt love the Lord thy God with all thy heart, and with all thy soul, and with all thy mind.
38 This is the first and great commandment.
39 And the second is like unto it, Thou shalt love thy neighbour as thyself.
40 On these two commandments hang all the law and the prophets.
Cowtipper -
“Let me rephrase then: Christians believe in the morals set forth by Jesus. Communism relies on the morals put forward by Marx. The atheist relies on his/her own personal morals.”
I still disagree with your revised statement. Whilst I agree that Christians believe that they take their morals from the Bible, if you scrutinise that argument it becomes clear that this cannot entirely be the case. For example, I think you'd agree that slavery is immoral? However, after healing a slave, Jesus himself said, “Slaves, obey your earthly masters in everything; and do it, not only when their eye is on you and to win their favour, but with sincerity of heart and reverence for the Lord.” (Colossians Chapter 3, Verse 22 [New International Version]). From this quote, it is clear that Jesus has no problem with the concept of slavery.
If you categorise slavery as being immoral, it begs the question, from where does this particular morality originate from? It is clearly not from Jesus. You have arrived at this moral position despite Jesus, not because of him.
This is just one example. I could give you more (homosexuality for example) but I'd be here all night!
“Let me rephrase then: Christians believe in the morals set forth by Jesus. Communism relies on the morals put forward by Marx. The atheist relies on his/her own personal morals.”
I still disagree with your revised statement. Whilst I agree that Christians believe that they take their morals from the Bible, if you scrutinise that argument it becomes clear that this cannot entirely be the case. For example, I think you'd agree that slavery is immoral? However, after healing a slave, Jesus himself said, “Slaves, obey your earthly masters in everything; and do it, not only when their eye is on you and to win their favour, but with sincerity of heart and reverence for the Lord.” (Colossians Chapter 3, Verse 22 [New International Version]). From this quote, it is clear that Jesus has no problem with the concept of slavery.
If you categorise slavery as being immoral, it begs the question, from where does this particular morality originate from? It is clearly not from Jesus. You have arrived at this moral position despite Jesus, not because of him.
This is just one example. I could give you more (homosexuality for example) but I'd be here all night!
Continued....
When you look at moral honestly, it is clear that they are not derived from scripture. The most obvious proof of that is to ask if people before Jesus displayed morality as we know it. And of course, they did – if this were not the case, ancient societies pre-dating Jesus wouldn't have flourished and developed and yet they self evidently did.
If you honestly think that your own personal morality can be attributed to the teachings of Jesus, ask yourself this question. Hypothetically, if it was proved categorically and unquestionably that the Bible is a lie and that Jesus never existed, would you abandon you currently held morality and murder someone; or steal; or commit rape, etc.? And if not, why not?
The bottom line is, morality is an evolutionary necessity that existed long before Jesus was a glint in his father's eye. It changes and grows with our understanding of the world we inhabit and our own psychology.
When you look at moral honestly, it is clear that they are not derived from scripture. The most obvious proof of that is to ask if people before Jesus displayed morality as we know it. And of course, they did – if this were not the case, ancient societies pre-dating Jesus wouldn't have flourished and developed and yet they self evidently did.
If you honestly think that your own personal morality can be attributed to the teachings of Jesus, ask yourself this question. Hypothetically, if it was proved categorically and unquestionably that the Bible is a lie and that Jesus never existed, would you abandon you currently held morality and murder someone; or steal; or commit rape, etc.? And if not, why not?
The bottom line is, morality is an evolutionary necessity that existed long before Jesus was a glint in his father's eye. It changes and grows with our understanding of the world we inhabit and our own psychology.
"And of course, they did – if this were not the case, ancient societies pre-dating Jesus wouldn't have flourished and developed and yet they self evidently did. "
The UK is a textbook example of what morals were like before Christ. Rape, looting, killing, burning. Went on for centuries didn't it? One tribe kills another. Is that your idea of civilization?
The UK is a textbook example of what morals were like before Christ. Rape, looting, killing, burning. Went on for centuries didn't it? One tribe kills another. Is that your idea of civilization?
Mike11111 -
Okay – so there are two commandments. The first being, love the one true God and the second being 'love thy neighbour as thyself'.
Apart from the obvious problem of worshipping the 'correct' God, straight away I can see a problem with the second law. It assumes that all people have the exact same moral code. I think you'd agree that this isn't the case.
What if neighbour 'A' is an immoral scum-bag who has no regard for his own well-being? What if 'A' is a drug addled moron with a penchant for playing loud music at 3am and shooting cats with an air rifle? If he treated neighbour 'B' based on his own pathetically low standards then he would be fulfilling the second law whilst simultaneously making 'Bs' life a misery.
Rather like the ridiculously vague fifth commandment, “Thou shalt not kill”, God should be much more specific than this.
If a mere mortal such as myself can see massive logical flaws in his pronouncements, then it's pretty clear that he's being far too vague.
Okay – so there are two commandments. The first being, love the one true God and the second being 'love thy neighbour as thyself'.
Apart from the obvious problem of worshipping the 'correct' God, straight away I can see a problem with the second law. It assumes that all people have the exact same moral code. I think you'd agree that this isn't the case.
What if neighbour 'A' is an immoral scum-bag who has no regard for his own well-being? What if 'A' is a drug addled moron with a penchant for playing loud music at 3am and shooting cats with an air rifle? If he treated neighbour 'B' based on his own pathetically low standards then he would be fulfilling the second law whilst simultaneously making 'Bs' life a misery.
Rather like the ridiculously vague fifth commandment, “Thou shalt not kill”, God should be much more specific than this.
If a mere mortal such as myself can see massive logical flaws in his pronouncements, then it's pretty clear that he's being far too vague.
Latest Posts
ChatterBank38 mins ago
Quizzes & Puzzles120 mins ago
What Did The Conservatives Achieve In...
Politics123 mins ago
Quizzes & Puzzles136 mins ago
Related Questions
Sorry, we can't find any related questions. Try using the search bar at the top of the page to search for some keywords, or choose a topic and submit your own question.