Does My Bum Look Bigger In These?
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FAO Keyplus
44 Answers
There seems to be a lot of (maybe unintentional) evasiveness in questions put to you.
so I thought it may be beneficial to you to answer (clearly, here)
1) Is hell a just punishment? (an eternity of suffering for finite sins)
2) What is the fate of those that have not ever heard of Allaha?
3) I read Harry Potter books, am I doomed? (Actually I'm been facetuous. Exactly WHICH books are ok to read?
so I thought it may be beneficial to you to answer (clearly, here)
1) Is hell a just punishment? (an eternity of suffering for finite sins)
2) What is the fate of those that have not ever heard of Allaha?
3) I read Harry Potter books, am I doomed? (Actually I'm been facetuous. Exactly WHICH books are ok to read?
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Continued...
A quick list of the things that you have stated in the past and which are absurd.
1. Moses was a Muslim.
2. The Koran is a blueprint for all science – the discovered and the yet to be discovered.
3. Saudi Arabia is not ruled by an Islamic regime – in fact, not one county on earth is truly Islamic.
4. When a Muslim does something horrific (such as a murder or a rape) they temporarily cease to be Muslims when they are carrying out the act and become Muslims again once it is completed.
I could go on and on here about the illogical and stupid things you have said but I won't.
Islam has successfully taught you four things, Keyplus. First, you can tell lies to the unbelievers without compromising your religious integrity. Second, violence or the threat of violence is acceptable when defending Islam. Third, it has taught you not to question any aspect of Islam; even when there is an overwhelming body of observable, testable and verifiable scientific evidence that conflicts with the teachings of Islam, you ignore the science and believe the ancient scriptures. Forth and finally, logic and religion do not mix.
A quick list of the things that you have stated in the past and which are absurd.
1. Moses was a Muslim.
2. The Koran is a blueprint for all science – the discovered and the yet to be discovered.
3. Saudi Arabia is not ruled by an Islamic regime – in fact, not one county on earth is truly Islamic.
4. When a Muslim does something horrific (such as a murder or a rape) they temporarily cease to be Muslims when they are carrying out the act and become Muslims again once it is completed.
I could go on and on here about the illogical and stupid things you have said but I won't.
Islam has successfully taught you four things, Keyplus. First, you can tell lies to the unbelievers without compromising your religious integrity. Second, violence or the threat of violence is acceptable when defending Islam. Third, it has taught you not to question any aspect of Islam; even when there is an overwhelming body of observable, testable and verifiable scientific evidence that conflicts with the teachings of Islam, you ignore the science and believe the ancient scriptures. Forth and finally, logic and religion do not mix.
Keyplus -
Regarding you're previous post where you actually answered a question with a very direct answer – well done! Maybe it will become a habit.
There's one thing I didn't understand though. When asked, “... Is hell a just punishment? (an eternity of suffering for finite sins)”, you said, “... yes for certain sins.”.
Certain sins?
Are there sins for which you don't go to Hell? Can you give me an example of a sin that doesn't condemn you to Hell?
Regarding you're previous post where you actually answered a question with a very direct answer – well done! Maybe it will become a habit.
There's one thing I didn't understand though. When asked, “... Is hell a just punishment? (an eternity of suffering for finite sins)”, you said, “... yes for certain sins.”.
Certain sins?
Are there sins for which you don't go to Hell? Can you give me an example of a sin that doesn't condemn you to Hell?
Kryptic-
What's the difference between a lifetime and eternity? Do you watch your days with an eye on the last day? As I've stated before I have odd beliefs, but I'm just answering your question. If a murderer gets to be ninety years old and obviously can't kill anybody do you let him out of a life sentence? I would. But does the law? The law written on your heart (as the New Testament says) will tell you right from wrong. Does your heart tell you that breaking the law is ok? I'm asking you questions because I don't have the same conclusions that you will. If you are free from sin then your heart is pure and heaven awaits you. If you aren't free from sin then salvation is offered by acceptance of Christ. If you don't accept that breaking the law of your heart is a sin (A transgression of a religious or moral law, especially when deliberate) then you have no defense on judgement day just as you won't stand a chance in court when you break man's laws. Christ said he will stand up and speak for you. You can represent yourself in court, and you can represent yourself when you die. Good luck with both.
What's the difference between a lifetime and eternity? Do you watch your days with an eye on the last day? As I've stated before I have odd beliefs, but I'm just answering your question. If a murderer gets to be ninety years old and obviously can't kill anybody do you let him out of a life sentence? I would. But does the law? The law written on your heart (as the New Testament says) will tell you right from wrong. Does your heart tell you that breaking the law is ok? I'm asking you questions because I don't have the same conclusions that you will. If you are free from sin then your heart is pure and heaven awaits you. If you aren't free from sin then salvation is offered by acceptance of Christ. If you don't accept that breaking the law of your heart is a sin (A transgression of a religious or moral law, especially when deliberate) then you have no defense on judgement day just as you won't stand a chance in court when you break man's laws. Christ said he will stand up and speak for you. You can represent yourself in court, and you can represent yourself when you die. Good luck with both.
Cowtipper -
“... If a murderer gets to be ninety years old and obviously can't kill anybody do you let him out of a life sentence? I would. But does the law? The law written on your heart (as the New Testament says) will tell you right from wrong...”
When you're talking about 'the law on your heart', you're really talking about moral law. The problem with moral law is that morals for one generation are not necessarily moral laws for another. For instance, it was perfectly moral and indeed normal, for people to keep slaves back in Jesus' day. This was a widely accepted practice. But today, we see slavery as a moral no-no – and with good reason.
“... If a murderer gets to be ninety years old and obviously can't kill anybody do you let him out of a life sentence? I would. But does the law? The law written on your heart (as the New Testament says) will tell you right from wrong...”
When you're talking about 'the law on your heart', you're really talking about moral law. The problem with moral law is that morals for one generation are not necessarily moral laws for another. For instance, it was perfectly moral and indeed normal, for people to keep slaves back in Jesus' day. This was a widely accepted practice. But today, we see slavery as a moral no-no – and with good reason.
Continued...
You also suggest that this hypothetical murderer should be shown leniency due to his age. This flies in the face of all Christian teachings. You've just asked if a murderer should be forgiven his sins and you appear to think that he can and should simply because he happens to now be old. But the Bible (both old and new flavours) is quite clear on this matter – kill, and you're going to Hell. Are you saying that the Bible's is wrong on this matter?
You also say, “... If you don't accept that breaking the law of your heart is a sin (A transgression of a religious or moral law, especially when deliberate) then you have no defence on judgement day just as you won't stand a chance in court when you break man's laws...”
This makes an almighty assumption (pun intended) that there will be a 'judgement day'. Which, of course, there won't be. Oh, and your question, “... What's the difference between a lifetime and eternity?”, is a very easy question to answer – (a) 'lifetime' is one's mortal life, measured from birth to death; (b) 'eternity' means from the very beginnings of time (approximately, 14 billion years ago) to an indeterminate point in the future. Since you, I and everyone else is subject to condition (a), I wouldn't worry too much about condition (b).
You also suggest that this hypothetical murderer should be shown leniency due to his age. This flies in the face of all Christian teachings. You've just asked if a murderer should be forgiven his sins and you appear to think that he can and should simply because he happens to now be old. But the Bible (both old and new flavours) is quite clear on this matter – kill, and you're going to Hell. Are you saying that the Bible's is wrong on this matter?
You also say, “... If you don't accept that breaking the law of your heart is a sin (A transgression of a religious or moral law, especially when deliberate) then you have no defence on judgement day just as you won't stand a chance in court when you break man's laws...”
This makes an almighty assumption (pun intended) that there will be a 'judgement day'. Which, of course, there won't be. Oh, and your question, “... What's the difference between a lifetime and eternity?”, is a very easy question to answer – (a) 'lifetime' is one's mortal life, measured from birth to death; (b) 'eternity' means from the very beginnings of time (approximately, 14 billion years ago) to an indeterminate point in the future. Since you, I and everyone else is subject to condition (a), I wouldn't worry too much about condition (b).
Slavery as a moral question isn't part of what I was talking about, but I'm willing to explore it a moment. Why is it immoral? Because you were taught that it was. Slavery in itself isn't immoral, just your perception of it. Its usefulness has gone or we'd still practice it. Slavery as it was practiced in the States wasn't the same thing in many ways in part because most of those people weren't born into slavery nor was there any true benefit to the slave. Slavery in the Roman Empire wasn't an equivalent. It was much like the class distinction in many parts of Europe with serfs where (in theory) the landowner protected the serf and the serf served the land. The Old Testament was the first recorded laws on how you were required to treat a slave (hence "OMG the bible is evil because it has slavery in it").
As a person I believe that prison is a way to separate those who can't live among society without endangering society. Even to the point where they are prevented from breeding. The old man in my example is not a threat to society. This is my [i]personal[/i] moral perspective. I didn't say a word about his guilt or repentance, just his danger to society. In another thread I made a point similar, but this isn't related to that.
Your day today is one day of an indeterminate point in the future(your death) which could occur anytime between now and the end of time. Demonstrable but not measurable.
"(b) 'eternity' means from the very beginnings of time (approximately, 14 billion years ago) to an indeterminate point in the future" Demonstrable but not measurable.
Although I'm not sure where you quoted that from I'm sure you're purposely nitpicking language. In your context there are two eternities (like in Trig). My point of view is that we're looking at the one that moves forward instead of back.
Because you like math if A=B and C=B then A=C.
As a person I believe that prison is a way to separate those who can't live among society without endangering society. Even to the point where they are prevented from breeding. The old man in my example is not a threat to society. This is my [i]personal[/i] moral perspective. I didn't say a word about his guilt or repentance, just his danger to society. In another thread I made a point similar, but this isn't related to that.
Your day today is one day of an indeterminate point in the future(your death) which could occur anytime between now and the end of time. Demonstrable but not measurable.
"(b) 'eternity' means from the very beginnings of time (approximately, 14 billion years ago) to an indeterminate point in the future" Demonstrable but not measurable.
Although I'm not sure where you quoted that from I'm sure you're purposely nitpicking language. In your context there are two eternities (like in Trig). My point of view is that we're looking at the one that moves forward instead of back.
Because you like math if A=B and C=B then A=C.
Birdie – When I call you my little birdie you do not like that. But Of course what do you expect when you post stupid things. You called me liar and you are saying that I asked you to meet me face to face. I actually asked you to have a “debate” face to face. Do liars do that? Not to my knowledge. Actually liars avoid that and we know who has and still is avoiding that. I did offer to fly you and pay for hotel but not to Pakistan. That offer was for Saudi Arabia where I wanted to take you there for one month so that you could show me how many people would you see there with one hand missing. Why should I ask you to come to Pakistan for a face to face debate? That offer was for any place within UK. Perhaps you really need to go back and check older threads. Or just make a phone call to the one you said would take place of when it comes to tackle my challenges because she claimed to have good memory. I must admit you are trying your best to fulfil her gap but only difference is that you do not seem to be as thick.
Now a quick response to your quick list. Very obviously I ignored you on the other thread so you have posted completely irrelevant question on this one.
1 – Yes Moses (and Jesus too) where Muslims and I have explained that in few threads down.
2 – Quran agrees with all Scientific Facts. Or in other words None of the proven scientific fact is against Quran.
3 – I agree with that and say again that there is not even a single country in this world being run completely under Islamic laws.
4 – That is your usual twisted mentality. Please provide where and when I said that. I will (for this purpose) cease to ignore you and would wait for your response. Lets see what you come up with?
I would ignore other bits about what I did or did not learn from Quran as your frustration. And yes one thing Quran has definitely told me and that is patience. So
Now a quick response to your quick list. Very obviously I ignored you on the other thread so you have posted completely irrelevant question on this one.
1 – Yes Moses (and Jesus too) where Muslims and I have explained that in few threads down.
2 – Quran agrees with all Scientific Facts. Or in other words None of the proven scientific fact is against Quran.
3 – I agree with that and say again that there is not even a single country in this world being run completely under Islamic laws.
4 – That is your usual twisted mentality. Please provide where and when I said that. I will (for this purpose) cease to ignore you and would wait for your response. Lets see what you come up with?
I would ignore other bits about what I did or did not learn from Quran as your frustration. And yes one thing Quran has definitely told me and that is patience. So
-- answer removed --
Keyplus -
“I actually asked you to have a “debate” face to face. Do liars do that? Not to my knowledge. Actually liars avoid that and we know who has and still is avoiding that. I did offer to fly you and pay for hotel but not to Pakistan. That offer was for Saudi Arabia where I wanted to take you there for one month so that you could show me how many people would you see there with one hand missing.”
More lies and more threats of violence.
You don't know when to stop do you?
Check out this link to see what you ACTUALLY said...
http://www.theanswerb...3.html#answer-3901943
“I actually asked you to have a “debate” face to face. Do liars do that? Not to my knowledge. Actually liars avoid that and we know who has and still is avoiding that. I did offer to fly you and pay for hotel but not to Pakistan. That offer was for Saudi Arabia where I wanted to take you there for one month so that you could show me how many people would you see there with one hand missing.”
More lies and more threats of violence.
You don't know when to stop do you?
Check out this link to see what you ACTUALLY said...
http://www.theanswerb...3.html#answer-3901943
Keyplus -
“... Actually liars avoid that [face to face debate] and we know who has and still is avoiding that...”
Are saying that you still want to meet me in person?
Why would you want to do that?
What can be achieved in a face to face debate that can't be achieved by debating on this website? Why don't you just be a man and say it Keyplus? It's blindingly obvious to anyone reading what your intentions are towards me are. Just say it!
“... Actually liars avoid that [face to face debate] and we know who has and still is avoiding that...”
Are saying that you still want to meet me in person?
Why would you want to do that?
What can be achieved in a face to face debate that can't be achieved by debating on this website? Why don't you just be a man and say it Keyplus? It's blindingly obvious to anyone reading what your intentions are towards me are. Just say it!
My Dear birdie – I do wish that you read links before you post them, Now lets see what you said on this thread and then we would compare that to the old thread you posted to prove your point.
This is what you claimed on this thread,
////A few months after that, you claimed that you had previously offered to fly me - first class no less - to Pakistan (despite the fact that you live and work in the UK) and put me up in a five-star hotel, where I could meet with you and some of your 'friends' to debate the finer points of Islam////
Purpose was “DEBATE” according to your above post, just keep that in mind. And now lets see what my offer was in the link you provided,
////keyplus90
I even offered my little birdie a first class (I always travel in economy myself) air ticket, free accommodation, and meals. I asked him to come with me to Pakistan and I will show him three things to start with.
1- A Hindu temple still intact inside a mosque. They did not demolish it as it was already there before 1947. And yes mosque was there too even then.
2- I will show you a real Muslims hospitality.
3- I will show you at least 20 people (as many I know personally) who left Islam and converted to other religions. Amazingly no one has killed them so far and they are not in hiding either. They are getting along with all the others without any probem.////
Is there any mention of “DEBATE”? No. The reason is that very clearly that response was due to your claims about blasphemy etc.
And here was your response then as per your own given link,
////�I even offered my little birdie a first class (I always travel in economy myself) air ticket, free accommodation, and meals. I asked him to come with me to Pakistan....�
When was this??????????
Please post the link to this amazing offer you made
This is what you claimed on this thread,
////A few months after that, you claimed that you had previously offered to fly me - first class no less - to Pakistan (despite the fact that you live and work in the UK) and put me up in a five-star hotel, where I could meet with you and some of your 'friends' to debate the finer points of Islam////
Purpose was “DEBATE” according to your above post, just keep that in mind. And now lets see what my offer was in the link you provided,
////keyplus90
I even offered my little birdie a first class (I always travel in economy myself) air ticket, free accommodation, and meals. I asked him to come with me to Pakistan and I will show him three things to start with.
1- A Hindu temple still intact inside a mosque. They did not demolish it as it was already there before 1947. And yes mosque was there too even then.
2- I will show you a real Muslims hospitality.
3- I will show you at least 20 people (as many I know personally) who left Islam and converted to other religions. Amazingly no one has killed them so far and they are not in hiding either. They are getting along with all the others without any probem.////
Is there any mention of “DEBATE”? No. The reason is that very clearly that response was due to your claims about blasphemy etc.
And here was your response then as per your own given link,
////�I even offered my little birdie a first class (I always travel in economy myself) air ticket, free accommodation, and meals. I asked him to come with me to Pakistan....�
When was this??????????
Please post the link to this amazing offer you made
Cont:
19:08 Fri 22nd May 2009///
All of my offers are still there, Pakistan to see people who left Islam and still are alive, Saudi Arabia for you to show me how many people you would find with one hand missing and to have a face to face debate at a place and time of your choice. You claim to be full of knowledge (of all kind) then why not share it face to face. Liars do not make offers like that.
19:08 Fri 22nd May 2009///
All of my offers are still there, Pakistan to see people who left Islam and still are alive, Saudi Arabia for you to show me how many people you would find with one hand missing and to have a face to face debate at a place and time of your choice. You claim to be full of knowledge (of all kind) then why not share it face to face. Liars do not make offers like that.
////What can be achieved in a face to face debate that can't be achieved by debating on this website? Why don't you just be a man and say it Keyplus? It's blindingly obvious to anyone reading what your intentions are towards me are. Just say it!////
What have we achieved so far in over three years? Because you claim that I do not answer your questions and I claim that I have. So here are only two choices (for me at least) either I should ignore you as an ignorant person who has a fixed agenda and clearly knows what he wants to hear. Or come face to face and sort it all for once. At least then no one would say it never happened. And by the way if you are worried that you might be in danger in meeting me alone then you are wrong. I have always asked for a public debate and bring as many people with you as you would feel safe with.
What have we achieved so far in over three years? Because you claim that I do not answer your questions and I claim that I have. So here are only two choices (for me at least) either I should ignore you as an ignorant person who has a fixed agenda and clearly knows what he wants to hear. Or come face to face and sort it all for once. At least then no one would say it never happened. And by the way if you are worried that you might be in danger in meeting me alone then you are wrong. I have always asked for a public debate and bring as many people with you as you would feel safe with.
Jesus was Jewish, not a Muslim. Is that what the Koran teaches you? Then why do so many Muslims object to people wearing the rood? A friend of mine, an air hostess, was sacked for refusing to remove a crucifix because it offended a Muslim. I would have told her that her Burka offended me and why didn't she remove that? Muslims have to have everything their own way and if they don't get it, they start shouting 'racist' at you. I know this from personal experience. They are the racists as they basically do not want to integrate, they just want to take over, like in Australia.
I'm off to make dinner. Fight amongst yourselves.
I'm off to make dinner. Fight amongst yourselves.
Keyplus -
Please try to understand that I have absolutely no desire to meet you face to face. Firstly, because I actually don't believe a word you say when it comes to my own safety and secondly because I find you utterly repellent due to the quite obnoxious, nasty and downright ludicrous things you have typed in the past. If you're the advert for Islam then God help Islam.
You say, “... You claim to be full of knowledge (of all kind) then why not share it face to face. Liars do not make offers like that.”. I've said it before and I'll say it again, your grasp of logic is tenuous to say the least. Liars can say and offer anything they please. It doesn't mean they are going to stand by their words. Lairs do indeed make offers like that which renders your statement moot.
If you want to convince me that you do not tell lies, then the answer is quite simple: stop telling them. You have been caught out so many times by myself and others that debating with you is becoming utterly pointless. I've just pointed one of them out to you earlier – the Pakistan / Saudi Arabia lie. And what do you do? Do you say, “Oops, I made a mistake, I did say Pakistan”?. No, you just ignore it and try and divert attention away from your lie and carry on as if nothing has happened.
Please try to understand that I have absolutely no desire to meet you face to face. Firstly, because I actually don't believe a word you say when it comes to my own safety and secondly because I find you utterly repellent due to the quite obnoxious, nasty and downright ludicrous things you have typed in the past. If you're the advert for Islam then God help Islam.
You say, “... You claim to be full of knowledge (of all kind) then why not share it face to face. Liars do not make offers like that.”. I've said it before and I'll say it again, your grasp of logic is tenuous to say the least. Liars can say and offer anything they please. It doesn't mean they are going to stand by their words. Lairs do indeed make offers like that which renders your statement moot.
If you want to convince me that you do not tell lies, then the answer is quite simple: stop telling them. You have been caught out so many times by myself and others that debating with you is becoming utterly pointless. I've just pointed one of them out to you earlier – the Pakistan / Saudi Arabia lie. And what do you do? Do you say, “Oops, I made a mistake, I did say Pakistan”?. No, you just ignore it and try and divert attention away from your lie and carry on as if nothing has happened.
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