Anti-Semitic Posts V Anti Islam Posts.

[Atheist]

It seems to me that AB has lots of OP's attacking Islam and Muslims in general, but not many OP's attacking Jews.

Anti-semitism seems to be considered shocking, but anti-Islam seems to be considered quite acceptable.

What do you think?

[ClareTG0ld]

// Hamas, for example, is an acronym for the Islamic Resistance Movement.  Spot the 'Islamic' bit in that?   Denial is not only foolhardy - it is naive in the extreme. //

I mean, that's the same flawed logic that could be applied to take the "D" in DPRK literally. 

[naomi24]

ClareTG0old, no, that^ is flawed logic.  Hamas is what it says on the tin, as is Hezbollah - the Party of Allah, ISIS - Islamic State of Iraq and Syria, and the Houthi - Supporters of God.  Islam is absolutely central to all - just as it's absolutely central to the lives of all devout Muslims.  The west needs to get its brains in order - and soon.  

 

I won't say what's on the tip of my tongue, but why on earth you even attempt to defend, justify, deny - or whatever -  is quite beyond me.

[ClareTG0ld]

OK, allow me to put it this way. Earlier you said that "no-one has made a case for Islamophobia". Barely 45 minutes later, Khandro has written that "In fact if anyone is committed to genocide it is Hamas and by extension all Muslims..."

Please explain to me how this is not Islamophobic.

[ClareTG0ld]

Also, what exactly do you think I am defending here? It is certainly not anti-Semitism. It is certainly not Hamas, or any other terrorist organisation.

[Mozz71]

//In fact if anyone is committed to genocide it is Hamas and by extension all Muslims, because that's what their Koran tells them to do; 'Kill the Jews'.//

 

Again, an opportunity to blame the crimes of Hamas on all Muslims is taken.

 

The Koran has some particularly nasty pieces in it, crying out for the blood of others. Just like the Bible does. Those with greater knowledge of the bible will no doubt be able to confirm some of its scriptures don't translate in modern times very well.

[naomi24]

ClareTG0ld, you stopped short with that quote from Khandro and I wondered why - but having traced it back to source I see the rest of it didn't support your claim.  

 

What do I think you're defending?  You're claiming that these terrorists aren't terrorists because they're Muslim - and you're wrong.  That's exactly why they are doing what they're doing - their stated intention the complete destruction of Israel to replace it with an Islamic state.  Note, not just a new state - specifically an Islamic state.  Islam is central to it all.  It really isn't me who needs to examine what you're saying - it's you. 

[naomi24]

Mozz, //The Koran has some particularly nasty pieces in it, crying out for the blood of others. Just like the Bible does. //

 

The bible does have some nasty bits but it doesn't instruct as  the Koran instructs.  It simply does not compare.

[ClareTG0ld]

It absolutely supports my claim, Naomi - see also Mozz's citation of the quote.

I also utterly reject your last paragraph, firstly because nothing I said amounts to a "defence" even if it's wrong, and secondly because you are still saying that in effect you agree with the terrorists when you interpret Islam. I'm saying I disagree with them. The suggestion that my position amounts to a "defence" is wholly mistaken and beneath contempt.

[naomi24]

ClareTG0ld, I've told you before, I respond only to what you say.  Don't blame me if you don't make yourself clear or subsequently realise you've said something you ought to have thought a bit more about.  You're responsible for what you write - not me.

 

I went back and looked at Khandro's quote.  He was talking about the Koran - as Mozz says.

[Ellipsis]

> Also, what exactly do you think I am defending here?

You are defending the opposite of what Naomi wants you to defend, and that's a problem ... for Naomi.

You are both wasting time.

If somebody believes that being a Muslim is the same as being a terrorist, there is no way of disavowing that notion in a single thread. In fact, even trying to is counter-productive.

Likewise, if somebody believes that being a Muslim isn't the same as being a terrorist, there is no way of disavowing that notion in a single thread either.

>> You're claiming that these terrorists aren't terrorists because they're Muslim 

And he's right. They're terrorists because they are terrorists.

I think all religion is problematic, 

[Ellipsis]

... but no major religion is innately terrorist. I mean, really ... 1.8 billion Muslims in the world, all terrorists? 

[ClareTG0ld]

That's a lovely sentiment, Naomi, but it remains as untrue as it ever was. Don't pretend it's all on me to help your inability to comprehend plain English.

Also, ellipsis, which "he" are you referring to as "right"?

[naomi24]

Ellipsis, //You're claiming that these terrorists aren't terrorists because they're Muslim 

And he's right. They're terrorists because they are terrorists.//

 

No, he's not right.  If they were not Muslims they would not be doing what they're doing - and they would not be planning to replace Israel with an Islamic state.  

[Ellipsis]

> Also, ellipsis, which "he" are you referring to as "right"?

Ah, sorry, "her"

[ClareTG0ld]

For example, Khandro was talking about the Koran, but on the way said "all Muslims" are "committed to genocide". The focus on the Koran as justification is a distraction. It's Islamophobia, pure and simple, and anyone who insists otherwise is mistaken.

[naomi24]

And Ellipsis, no one has said that all Muslims are terrorists.  That inane argument regularly crops up and every time it muddies the waters unnecessarily.

 

ClareTG0ld, pretence isn't my thing.

[Ellipsis]

> If they were not Muslims they would not be doing what they're doing - and they would not be planning to replace Israel with an Islamic state. 

You're not a very logical person, are you ...

[ClareTG0ld]

I appreciate you were quoting Ellipsis's slip of the tongue, Naomi, but even still I'm not "he". 

[naomi24]

ClareTG0ld, //The focus on the Koran as justification is a distraction. It's Islamophobia, pure and simple, and anyone who insists otherwise is mistaken.//

 

Somethng else you've neglected to think through.  The Koran is, according to all devout Muslims, beyond criticism.  Nothing, absolutely nothing in it is wrong or even open to question.  That, I imagine, is why Khandro said what he said.   Obviously all Muslims don't choose the same path in attempting to achieve Islam's ultimate goal;  some blow people to smithereens, some seek high office in non-Islamic countries, some simply make friends with non-Muslims and gain their trust - but the ultimate goal is the same.  The advancement of Islam.

[naomi24]

Ellipsis, Why would non-Muslims want to replace a non-Muslim country with an Islamic state?  Where's your logic?