Quizzes & Puzzles1 min ago
Fitna
39 Answers
Anyone seen the film?
If so, what do you think?
Is it offensive or does it just speak an unpleasant truth?
http://www.jihadwatch.org/archives/020472.php
If so, what do you think?
Is it offensive or does it just speak an unpleasant truth?
http://www.jihadwatch.org/archives/020472.php
Answers
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I have watched it.
It does not offend me, nor does it speak an unpleasant truth. It is a very crude and simplistic film straight out of the Joseph Goebbels School of film-making.
The Germans juxtaposed film of suffering German people with audio about the greedy Jew. Fitna shows film of terrorist atrocities and has audio of radical islamic preachers threatening their enemies with Koran scripture. Both of these examples are dishonest.
Fitna is an attempt to demonise the Islamic faith. It is true the terrorists claimed the Koran ordered them to commit these murderous acts, but that does not mean they are right.
It is like saying 'The White Album' and the Beatles are evil because the murder Charles Manson said it told him to kill lots of people. The fact that many millions can listen to the Beatles without going out and killing people, would appear to suggest maybe the murders got the wrong message.
The same with al qaeda saying the Koran tells them to kill their enemies. The fact that 1,000 billion+ people in the world read the Koran and do not hear the message they should do murderous acts, and yet, Osama Bin Laden and his cronies do, would suggest that it is they who are off message.
Fitna attempts to portray the views of murderous madmen as being as the truth about Islam and the Koran. Why anyone would believe the word of murderous madmen is a mystery. It might just suit their own agenda to do do.
I posted this yesterday. Do not look if easy offended. It shows US soldiers and a quote from the Bible. It was just to illustrate that Fitna and other propaganda is easy to do.
God tells Christians to kill all Iraqis
It does not offend me, nor does it speak an unpleasant truth. It is a very crude and simplistic film straight out of the Joseph Goebbels School of film-making.
The Germans juxtaposed film of suffering German people with audio about the greedy Jew. Fitna shows film of terrorist atrocities and has audio of radical islamic preachers threatening their enemies with Koran scripture. Both of these examples are dishonest.
Fitna is an attempt to demonise the Islamic faith. It is true the terrorists claimed the Koran ordered them to commit these murderous acts, but that does not mean they are right.
It is like saying 'The White Album' and the Beatles are evil because the murder Charles Manson said it told him to kill lots of people. The fact that many millions can listen to the Beatles without going out and killing people, would appear to suggest maybe the murders got the wrong message.
The same with al qaeda saying the Koran tells them to kill their enemies. The fact that 1,000 billion+ people in the world read the Koran and do not hear the message they should do murderous acts, and yet, Osama Bin Laden and his cronies do, would suggest that it is they who are off message.
Fitna attempts to portray the views of murderous madmen as being as the truth about Islam and the Koran. Why anyone would believe the word of murderous madmen is a mystery. It might just suit their own agenda to do do.
I posted this yesterday. Do not look if easy offended. It shows US soldiers and a quote from the Bible. It was just to illustrate that Fitna and other propaganda is easy to do.
God tells Christians to kill all Iraqis
Long post warning!
Gromit � There are a couple of points you make that are way off base.
�It is like saying 'The White Album' and the Beatles are evil because the murder Charles Manson said it told him to kill lots of people.� - Sorry, but this is one of the worst analogies I have ever read. Charles Manson was a fantasist who read so far in between the lines of the song �Helter Skelter� that the lyrics no longer had any rational meaning. I don't want to go into this particular analogy much further because it's not really worth it. Sorry, but this is a poor analogy Gromit.
Secondly, you state, �It is a very crude and simplistic film straight out of the Joseph Goebbels School of film-making.� - No it isn't. Goebbels was the master of making up fake tales about Jewish dishonesty, thievery, etc. Fitna takes verifiable Islamic texts and links them to specific terrorist actions � as do the terrorists.
Gromit � what is the Koran? Is it a series of stories about Allah and Mohammed? Is it a tale of daring-do with Mohammed cast as the hero?
No. It is (and I want to make this perfectly clear, so I'll write it large) � THE KORAN IS THE LITERAL WORD OF GOD.
That means that it cannot be altered or changed.
Gromit � There are a couple of points you make that are way off base.
�It is like saying 'The White Album' and the Beatles are evil because the murder Charles Manson said it told him to kill lots of people.� - Sorry, but this is one of the worst analogies I have ever read. Charles Manson was a fantasist who read so far in between the lines of the song �Helter Skelter� that the lyrics no longer had any rational meaning. I don't want to go into this particular analogy much further because it's not really worth it. Sorry, but this is a poor analogy Gromit.
Secondly, you state, �It is a very crude and simplistic film straight out of the Joseph Goebbels School of film-making.� - No it isn't. Goebbels was the master of making up fake tales about Jewish dishonesty, thievery, etc. Fitna takes verifiable Islamic texts and links them to specific terrorist actions � as do the terrorists.
Gromit � what is the Koran? Is it a series of stories about Allah and Mohammed? Is it a tale of daring-do with Mohammed cast as the hero?
No. It is (and I want to make this perfectly clear, so I'll write it large) � THE KORAN IS THE LITERAL WORD OF GOD.
That means that it cannot be altered or changed.
cont...
You state, �The fact that 1,000 billion+ people in the world read the Koran and do not hear the message they should do murderous acts...�
Apart from the fact that you have over estimated the population of the Earth by some order of magnitude; what makes you think that they do not believe that they should commit those acts? Sure, they're not committing them now but will they in the future when they can get away with it?
�Qur'an 8:61 "But if the enemy inclines toward peace, do you (also) incline to peace, and trust in Allah. Should they intend to deceive or cheat you, verily Allah suffices: He strengthened you with His aid and with Believers."
Alarm Bells!!! The small print is really important. "Should they intend to deceive or cheat" is an open invitation to invoke 8:57 and 59, which say...
Qur'an 8:57 "If you meet them in battle, inflict on them such a defeat as would be a lesson for those who come after them, that they may be warned." Qur'an 8:59 "The infidels should not think that they can get away from us. Prepare against them whatever arms and weaponry you can muster so that you may terrorize them. They are your enemy and Allah's enemy."
Gromit, I know that you're an intelligent person. Please, open your eyes to this.
If Islam ever took serious hold over this country, you can be assured that all these 'moderate' Muslims (who you appear to be speaking for) would quickly evaporate like morning dew.
And we'd be left with... ahh yes, the middle ages again.... for the foreseeable future.
You state, �The fact that 1,000 billion+ people in the world read the Koran and do not hear the message they should do murderous acts...�
Apart from the fact that you have over estimated the population of the Earth by some order of magnitude; what makes you think that they do not believe that they should commit those acts? Sure, they're not committing them now but will they in the future when they can get away with it?
�Qur'an 8:61 "But if the enemy inclines toward peace, do you (also) incline to peace, and trust in Allah. Should they intend to deceive or cheat you, verily Allah suffices: He strengthened you with His aid and with Believers."
Alarm Bells!!! The small print is really important. "Should they intend to deceive or cheat" is an open invitation to invoke 8:57 and 59, which say...
Qur'an 8:57 "If you meet them in battle, inflict on them such a defeat as would be a lesson for those who come after them, that they may be warned." Qur'an 8:59 "The infidels should not think that they can get away from us. Prepare against them whatever arms and weaponry you can muster so that you may terrorize them. They are your enemy and Allah's enemy."
Gromit, I know that you're an intelligent person. Please, open your eyes to this.
If Islam ever took serious hold over this country, you can be assured that all these 'moderate' Muslims (who you appear to be speaking for) would quickly evaporate like morning dew.
And we'd be left with... ahh yes, the middle ages again.... for the foreseeable future.
"Sure, they're not committing them now but will they in the future when they can get away with it?"
Probably not, no. But full marks for bothering to type out such a desperate, desperate argument.
Presumably, Christians are also biding their time before pursuing the violence encouraged by the bible? No, you're thinking as you trot out your favourite hobby-horse argument, Christians dismiss those passages as out-dated. Muslims on the other hand see the Qu'ran as literal instructions.
What are they waiting for then? Are they disobeying a direct order from God because it's not convenient in the current climate? They're either unquestioning slaves to the word of the book, or they're not. You want to have it both ways, birdie, to suit your sixth-form ravings. Sadly, the overwhelmingly huge majority of Muslims capsize that argument. Keep churning it out though.
Probably not, no. But full marks for bothering to type out such a desperate, desperate argument.
Presumably, Christians are also biding their time before pursuing the violence encouraged by the bible? No, you're thinking as you trot out your favourite hobby-horse argument, Christians dismiss those passages as out-dated. Muslims on the other hand see the Qu'ran as literal instructions.
What are they waiting for then? Are they disobeying a direct order from God because it's not convenient in the current climate? They're either unquestioning slaves to the word of the book, or they're not. You want to have it both ways, birdie, to suit your sixth-form ravings. Sadly, the overwhelmingly huge majority of Muslims capsize that argument. Keep churning it out though.
Yes, I have watched it Birdie, and yes, it does offend me. It offends me to see acts of such horrific barbarism, to see people being executed, to see heads hacked from shoulders being triumphantly displayed aloft, to see gays hanging by their necks, to see the carnage resulting of atrocious acts of terrorism, to see raving, brainwashed, lunatics calling for the death of free thinkers, and it offends me to see people with unimaginably archaic mindsets calling for an end to democracy - but what offends me most are those who are lucky enough to enjoy the benefits of free speech, rigorously excusing and trivialising these appalling acts, and demonising, denouncing and attempting to silence anyone who dares to highlight them and to condemn the perpetrators for the savages they are.
The fact is, like it or not, the people in this video are real, and they hate the west, and they hate the people of the west. If push ever came to shove (and let's hope it never does), make no mistake, guys. We're infidels, and as such, there will be there will be no compassion from people such as these. It'll be 'off with their heads'!
The fact is, like it or not, the people in this video are real, and they hate the west, and they hate the people of the west. If push ever came to shove (and let's hope it never does), make no mistake, guys. We're infidels, and as such, there will be there will be no compassion from people such as these. It'll be 'off with their heads'!
naomi24
but what offends me most are those who are lucky enough to enjoy the benefits of free speech, rigorously excusing and trivialising these appalling acts, and demonising, denouncing and attempting to silence anyone who dares to highlight them.
Off you go again. Who is trivialising terrorists acts? Who is excusing them?
And who is demonising Wilders and his ilk?
I do not agree with barring him from this country, but that has hardly silenced him, the opposite probably, it has generated lots of publicity for his film.
I admit guilt on denouncing him. I think his film and its message is simplistic and wrong.
but what offends me most are those who are lucky enough to enjoy the benefits of free speech, rigorously excusing and trivialising these appalling acts, and demonising, denouncing and attempting to silence anyone who dares to highlight them.
Off you go again. Who is trivialising terrorists acts? Who is excusing them?
And who is demonising Wilders and his ilk?
I do not agree with barring him from this country, but that has hardly silenced him, the opposite probably, it has generated lots of publicity for his film.
I admit guilt on denouncing him. I think his film and its message is simplistic and wrong.
naomi24
I admitted to denouncing him as it was the only item on your charge sheet of what offends you most that I personally was guilty of.
I take it you are unable to name names of those who trivialise these atrocities. Those that perpetrate the crimes do not think they are trivial, and the rest of us are horrified by them, so I have no idea who think they are trivial.
Third time of asking, can you enlighten us as to who they are?
I admitted to denouncing him as it was the only item on your charge sheet of what offends you most that I personally was guilty of.
I take it you are unable to name names of those who trivialise these atrocities. Those that perpetrate the crimes do not think they are trivial, and the rest of us are horrified by them, so I have no idea who think they are trivial.
Third time of asking, can you enlighten us as to who they are?
Quinlad - �But full marks for bothering to type out such a desperate, desperate argument.�
Thanks. Actually, it's not desperate. You simply have not understood what I am saying. I'll try to make it simple for you as you are clearly having difficulty. Bless.
�Presumably, Christians are also biding their time before pursuing the violence encouraged by the bible?� - No. The Christian Bible does not instruct its followers to pretend to be anything other than what they are. In fact, it instructs the opposite � be good to everyone.
On this next point, you clearly do not understand Islam at all. You say...
�What are they [Muslims] waiting for then? Are they disobeying a direct order from God because it's not convenient in the current climate? They're either unquestioning slaves to the word of the book, or they're not.�
They are waiting until they are in a position of power. This is a clear instruction in the Koran � keep your head down, comply with the laws of the country � until such time as you have sufficient numbers to take over, and then ruthlessly take control of power. You can also instantly dissolve any treaties or contracts you have signed as Mohammed did himself � �The Prophet said, 'If I take an oath and later find something else better than that, then I do what is better and expiate my oath.�
�You want to have it both ways, birdie, to suit your sixth-form ravings.� - Ahh, an insult to my intelligence. Can do better. Next.
�Keep churning it out though.� - I will. And one day when the freedoms you take for granted are all a distant memory, you might look back and think, 'Someone warned me this might happen....'
Thanks. Actually, it's not desperate. You simply have not understood what I am saying. I'll try to make it simple for you as you are clearly having difficulty. Bless.
�Presumably, Christians are also biding their time before pursuing the violence encouraged by the bible?� - No. The Christian Bible does not instruct its followers to pretend to be anything other than what they are. In fact, it instructs the opposite � be good to everyone.
On this next point, you clearly do not understand Islam at all. You say...
�What are they [Muslims] waiting for then? Are they disobeying a direct order from God because it's not convenient in the current climate? They're either unquestioning slaves to the word of the book, or they're not.�
They are waiting until they are in a position of power. This is a clear instruction in the Koran � keep your head down, comply with the laws of the country � until such time as you have sufficient numbers to take over, and then ruthlessly take control of power. You can also instantly dissolve any treaties or contracts you have signed as Mohammed did himself � �The Prophet said, 'If I take an oath and later find something else better than that, then I do what is better and expiate my oath.�
�You want to have it both ways, birdie, to suit your sixth-form ravings.� - Ahh, an insult to my intelligence. Can do better. Next.
�Keep churning it out though.� - I will. And one day when the freedoms you take for granted are all a distant memory, you might look back and think, 'Someone warned me this might happen....'
Looking into the background of this Dutch chap being banned from Britain, I have found out the following...
Geert Wilders was invited to the House of Lords to discuss his film, Fitna. On hearing this, one Lord Ahmed basically told the Government, �If you allow Wilders to come to Britain and show his film in the Lords, I shall mobilise thousands of Muslims to protest about it�.
Who is Lord Ahmed? He's a guy who has admitted to dangerous driving after sending text messages while driving over 60mph on a motorway just before a crash in which a father-of-two died. He has been found guilty and is awaiting sentence (due on 25 February 2009; he could face up to two years in jail).
Lord Ahmed � clearly a pillar of the community.
So our Government, highly reliant on Muslim votes to stay in power, caved in and banned Wilders.
So much for free speech.
Someone makes a film showing Muslim violence and he is banned from entering Britain because of �. the treat of Muslim violence.
Hmmm. Is it just me or is there something wrong with this picture?
Geert Wilders was invited to the House of Lords to discuss his film, Fitna. On hearing this, one Lord Ahmed basically told the Government, �If you allow Wilders to come to Britain and show his film in the Lords, I shall mobilise thousands of Muslims to protest about it�.
Who is Lord Ahmed? He's a guy who has admitted to dangerous driving after sending text messages while driving over 60mph on a motorway just before a crash in which a father-of-two died. He has been found guilty and is awaiting sentence (due on 25 February 2009; he could face up to two years in jail).
Lord Ahmed � clearly a pillar of the community.
So our Government, highly reliant on Muslim votes to stay in power, caved in and banned Wilders.
So much for free speech.
Someone makes a film showing Muslim violence and he is banned from entering Britain because of �. the treat of Muslim violence.
Hmmm. Is it just me or is there something wrong with this picture?
