Should The Current Incarnation Of Israel Not Have Been Set Up In 1948?

[ToraToraTora]

I ask because the critics of Israel always go on about how the land was "stolen" to create Israel so I assume they think that the state should not have been created.

[retrocop]

Well I suppose dear old blighty will have to wear sack cloth and ashes and apologise to all the Arabs for that. I blame that bloke Balfour .

[beso]

Read the history of Israel in the Old Testament.

The Hebrews came from Egypt and performed a brutal gebocidal massacre of more than thirty tribes who were living in the "Promised Land" they wanted at the behest of their deity who actually punished them because they let two tribes off by enslaving rather than slaughtering them.

Then they wonder why they were driven out of the region long ago and why their neighbours still hate them.

There will be no peace on this planet while people continue to worship Abraham's Monster.

But don't just blame the Jews. Abraham, a psychotic man who was about to murder his son to demonstrate his faith when he had a revalation, is the founder of the religions celebrated by Jews, Muslims and Christians.

God's Kingdom is already on Earth.

[ToraToraTora]

..thanks for that, care to answer the question?

[youngmafbog]

Probably not, same with Pakistan/Bangladesh.  We should have kept out of it.  All good intentions .....

And my FiL (god rest his soul) would have been happier for it.  Shot at by the Jews when sent there after years of fighting Italians and Germans.

[Peter Pedant]

Christ,  word purposely chosen, it is all a bit for that sort of discussion,

phew -  who is it, who says confidently and usually ( reliably) wrongly - end of!

[Peter Pedant]

 Shot at by the Jews when sent there after years of fighting Italians 

one of my relations - after ma daddy had spent five y i German after Dunkirk ( can you guess why?) did his national service as .... palestian police !

I spoke much better Arabic than he did, but that wasnt the reason he was sent

Irgun and Shin Beth were still trying to kill them fifty years later ( self defence can last a long time!) - national tv carried, 30 y ago) the curious case of the North west and Lancs Ferret Breeders re-union, and what it really was

( ex palestine police old boys poss up)

[Peter Pedant]

brutal gebocidal

gebocide sounds painful - is that was is going on in Gaza now?

werbil the Gerbil says.....

[Peter Pedant]

Probably not, same with Pakistan/Bangladesh.  We should have kept out of it.

we did   ( keep out of it). the partition massacres occurred after Lord Mountbatten ( Loo-ie) had possed off. 'only' 250 000 dead

[Paul22118]

I listened to a lecture many years ago when the speaker said that the Arab v Jew issue would never, ever subside.  It would cool off and then re-emerge perpetually.  I guess he was correct.

He also said that notwithstanding the reasons for choosing the geographical location of Israel today, the powers that be at that time should have relocated any Jewry that wished to live in a freshly cleared island  of Madagaskar.  Very few people lived there in 1948 and it had the advantage of not having any borders with anyone else meaning you could only argue amongst yourselves.

Fast forward to 2023 and Madagaskar, or Israel as it would be known is a prosperous island country with no land borders with any Country, Arab or otherwise,a strong religious base, a good sized population and a thriving industry - all protected by a large and well armed militia. 

Discuss.

 

[naomi24]

The geographical location of Israel wasn't chosen.  It is what it is.   And if that speaker was serious about Madagascar then he was an idiot.  He was right in one respect though - it will never end.

[royfromaus]

Madagascar Plan - Wikipedia

 

?

Doesn't look like a link

[naomi24]

You jogged my memory, Roy.  Checked it out - it was a Nazi plan.  

[retrocop]

I believe Herr Hitler muted the proposal to send the European jews to Madagascar at the Wannsee Conference but decided on the holocaust instead. Just noticed an awful irony in the name

:-(i

[royfromaus]

As Miss Pollard would say

 

yeah a no.

[Old_Geezer]

I have yet to be convinced that anyone had the right to award a religious group a homeland. But that is water under the bridge, things have move very far on since then and one must deal with the present situation not hark back to the past.

[naomi24]

OG, I agree with you.

[Gromit]

Jews had been scattered throughout Europe and the middle east for centuries. They were often persecuted and marginalised. In the late 1890s they formed the Xionist movement, and decided they wanted a jewish state in the Lavant that was at the time occupied by Palestinians.
Millennia earlier the Romans had captured the land and added it to the Roman Empire. With the fall of the Roman empire it became part of the muslim caliphate and then the Ottoman Empire. The Ottomans allied with Germany during the Great War, and its territory was carved up by the League of Nations who gave the British a mandate to run the place.

Meanwhile in the US, 3 million jews had emigrated there and the Zionist movement (which want an homeland in Palestine) grew and became politically influencial. Cut to the end of the second world war and millions of jews and been massacred and millions more had been displaced. The world had a Jewish problem. 
The UN decided a jewish state was the solution. The British were grateful to get rid of the burden, the large jewish population in the US wanted it, and the US Government made it happen. Everyone was happy except the people who lived in Palestine, who were not consulted, and found their land handed to foreigners from Europe and beyond.

The solution to the Jewish problem was unjust, and the new state quickly found itself at war with neighbouring countries, who did not want it there. And thus has been in turmoil ever since.

[Gromit]

* Zionist

[fiveleaves]

100% behind the creation of Israel in 1948. The land is their homeland given to the Jewish people by God forever.

Jews have always lived in the land of Palestine and their numbers increased steadily since the mid 19th century.

There never has been a state of Palestine. The land was part of the Ottoman Empire for centuries and then under a British mandate.

Jews need one place in the world where they can be safe, hopefully and Israel is it

 

[Deskdiary]

^^^Agreed.

The Jews are the most persecuted people ever, and I just don't understand why that would be so. Why is is that even to this day they are hated, and not just by many Muslims?

Having been to Auschwitz, and fairly regularly stayed in the Kazimierz area of Krakow where the pogroms were and where to this day in some courtyards where you can still see walls riddled with bulletholes, I'm glad they have a country they can call home, and they have every right to jealously guard their home and retaliate when they're attacked.