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Has H R H Got A Get Out Of Jail Free Card
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I wonder if he has rediscovered the ability to sweat ?
No doubt he is !
I wonder if he has rediscovered the ability to sweat ?
No doubt he is !
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naomi - // Blimey! The holier than thou strike again! //
It's actually Khandro who merits the term 'holier than thou' - hence the label of hypocrite which of course he ignores.
// When someone willingly meets with an ‘abuser’ three times I have my doubts that it was so very objectionable the first time. That girl wasn’t a child, she was available to travel to destinations around the world, and I suspect she was taking full advantage of the high life. //
Then clearly, for all your oft-trumpeted education, you have singularly failed to understand the concepts of grooming and coercion - maybe a little education in that area would give Islamic attacks a reserved rest, and bring you into line with the majority of the rest of your gender who do understand that grooming and abuse do not always require physical threats to be valid.
// Sure, call me cynical. I am. //
And clearly proud of it, to your shame.
It's actually Khandro who merits the term 'holier than thou' - hence the label of hypocrite which of course he ignores.
// When someone willingly meets with an ‘abuser’ three times I have my doubts that it was so very objectionable the first time. That girl wasn’t a child, she was available to travel to destinations around the world, and I suspect she was taking full advantage of the high life. //
Then clearly, for all your oft-trumpeted education, you have singularly failed to understand the concepts of grooming and coercion - maybe a little education in that area would give Islamic attacks a reserved rest, and bring you into line with the majority of the rest of your gender who do understand that grooming and abuse do not always require physical threats to be valid.
// Sure, call me cynical. I am. //
And clearly proud of it, to your shame.
naomi - // Your reference to this woman as ‘vulnerable’ implies her innocence and the accused’s guilt. //
I don;t have to 'imply' her innocence, or the accused's 'guilt', that's the court's job.
If you want to draw unadvised conclusions from my posts, feel free, but please don;t bring them to me, i am less than not interested in what you think - as you so often feel keen to advise me.
I don;t have to 'imply' her innocence, or the accused's 'guilt', that's the court's job.
If you want to draw unadvised conclusions from my posts, feel free, but please don;t bring them to me, i am less than not interested in what you think - as you so often feel keen to advise me.
//She was definitely fighting him off in that picture, mozz.//
Good grief. What option do you think she really had Naomi? Because she isn't holding a message saying "help me", doesn't mean she wasn't coerced into thpse actions. I do not know her age when Epstein first groomed her, but I'd imagine part of that process is accepting the normality of what she was being forced to do. Smiles can be faked.
Good grief. What option do you think she really had Naomi? Because she isn't holding a message saying "help me", doesn't mean she wasn't coerced into thpse actions. I do not know her age when Epstein first groomed her, but I'd imagine part of that process is accepting the normality of what she was being forced to do. Smiles can be faked.
TTT - // I ask only one question, why now? //
As a counsellor, I have dealt with may groomed and abused women and girls who carried such a burden of shame with them that they only felt able to share it down a phone with a stranger, and then usually with long pauses, tears, and sometimes several conversations.
It is possible that the accuser has simply not felt able to confront her abuser until now.
This of course leads some people, and some on this site who ought to know better, to conclude that this is a cynical effort to secure a financial settlement.
But trust me, an abused woman is not going to put herself through the trauma of a court case which, even if the accused is found guilty, is never ever going to give her the one thing she really wants.
It's not money, it's peace of mind and a decent night's sleep.
You can't get those through a court, only vindication, which may, or may not help.
As a counsellor, I have dealt with may groomed and abused women and girls who carried such a burden of shame with them that they only felt able to share it down a phone with a stranger, and then usually with long pauses, tears, and sometimes several conversations.
It is possible that the accuser has simply not felt able to confront her abuser until now.
This of course leads some people, and some on this site who ought to know better, to conclude that this is a cynical effort to secure a financial settlement.
But trust me, an abused woman is not going to put herself through the trauma of a court case which, even if the accused is found guilty, is never ever going to give her the one thing she really wants.
It's not money, it's peace of mind and a decent night's sleep.
You can't get those through a court, only vindication, which may, or may not help.
Naomi and Andy we are all prey to yawning boredom as you go thro your well worn 'facts' and insults
do you think you could limit yourself to the facts of Andrew and his difficulties
I am sure the whole of AB ( those that read that is!) might agree with me. Thank you for reading with or without understanding
do you think you could limit yourself to the facts of Andrew and his difficulties
I am sure the whole of AB ( those that read that is!) might agree with me. Thank you for reading with or without understanding
//I ask only one question, why now?//
Because the crimes of Epstein and Maxwell have only become public over the past few years. Plus we don't know how long the investigation has been going for. Years probably. It's the same as other sex crime cases, the knowledge that the perpetrators have been found out gives people the confidence to come forward and be heard.
Because the crimes of Epstein and Maxwell have only become public over the past few years. Plus we don't know how long the investigation has been going for. Years probably. It's the same as other sex crime cases, the knowledge that the perpetrators have been found out gives people the confidence to come forward and be heard.
//There’s another option, mozz. Perhaps the smile wasn’t fake. Best we don’t consider that though - clearly.//
Given what we now know about Epstein and Maxwell, does it even matter? Someone who is groomed as a child doesn't suddenly click out of that conditioning when they turn 17. The damage is done.
The question is, is Andrew guilty of anything legally? That, I'll leave up to people better qualified to investigate than us folk discussing it on AB.
Given what we now know about Epstein and Maxwell, does it even matter? Someone who is groomed as a child doesn't suddenly click out of that conditioning when they turn 17. The damage is done.
The question is, is Andrew guilty of anything legally? That, I'll leave up to people better qualified to investigate than us folk discussing it on AB.
Mozz, I don’t know if Andrew in guilty of doing anything illegal. I think the man is an utter plonker and it wouldn’t surprise me in the least if he and she had a dalliance or three - but I don’t believe her story.
AH, you said you were with the Samaritans for a little while. They are not counsellors - they are listeners.
AH, you said you were with the Samaritans for a little while. They are not counsellors - they are listeners.
Andrew being a complete tool is something even we agree on Naomi.
As for the rest of it, I always give the benefit of the doubt to the accuser in these cases. To cast shade on people who claim to be a victim of abuse is to stop future victims from coming forward. These women deserve to be heard.
If it is all a lie, then I hope she is found out and dealt with accordingly.
As for the rest of it, I always give the benefit of the doubt to the accuser in these cases. To cast shade on people who claim to be a victim of abuse is to stop future victims from coming forward. These women deserve to be heard.
If it is all a lie, then I hope she is found out and dealt with accordingly.
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