Anti-Vaxxer Rally…Creepy?

[sp1814]

When anti-vaxxer rallies begin to look like
The Nuremberg Rally, should we be concerned:
https://twitter.com/marclister3k/status/1418907451190038533?s=21

If not, why not?

[Peter Pedant]

well you dont have to do a ferrrrrrmi estimation
you read the gov site
here

https://www.gov.uk/government/publications/coronavirus-covid-19-vaccine-adverse-reactions/coronavirus-vaccine-summary-of-yellow-card-reporting

71 deaths which works out at 2 per million

so let us correct
According to the Gov. (MHRA) 1,500 people have died shortly after an adverse reaction to the Covid vaccine since Nov2020 in this country
to
According to the Gov. (MHRA) 71 people have died after an adverse reaction to the Covid vaccine since Nov2020 in this country which works out as a rate of 2 per million doses

phew !

[Spicerack]

Peter, Peter, Peter. Dear me. I know it was late at night when you pulled your 71 fatalities out of your hat with a flourish. No doubt, to defend the Old Boy and put the common upstart (ie. me) in his place.
I can see the tables where you got it from. 5&6. Those tables refer to 1 fatal illness connected to the vaccine.
If you'd only scrolled down a little further before blarting out your Misinformation you'd have seen the total totals, as it were.

[Spicerack]

I'm not one to blow my own trumpet but when I see the product of our best Universities, I think I should be sat at the right hand side of God. After all, and I'm sure you all agree, they make me look practically omnipotent. ;-)

[naomi24]

You have your wits well and truly about you... but I knew that. Well said.

[jim360]

To be clear, Spicerack's utterly exaggerating the scale of vaccine-caused deaths. There's no doubt that the number of such deaths is greater than zero, sadly, but it isn't around 1500 in the UK (which would imply 100,000 such deaths worldwide) -- and it certainly isn't the case that this is even an underestimate.

It's possible that I've underestimated the number of deaths in turn, but I'm inclined to think that my estimate of a few hundred directly caused by the vaccine worldwide is closer based on all the evidence I've seen.

In any case, none of this is helpful. The vaccine is vastly less dangerous, by orders of magnitude, than the disease it prevents.

[ichkeria]

I had to laugh at Nigel Farage last night on everyone's favourite news channel GB News, mocking The Times for its headline "Scientists puzzled at fall in covid cases" or similar.
It's all perfectly clear to Professor Farage of course.
Made a change from Right Said Fred ("I'm too sexy for my vac"?), who when asked on the same channel, agreed that the anti-NHS language at the rally was "unacceptable".
It seems there are limits to free speech even for some ...

[naomi24]

//I had to laugh at Nigel Farage last night ....It's all perfectly clear to Professor Farage of course. //

Want to share the joke? What did he say?

[naomi24]

Jim, you've gone into 'No but .. yeah but' mode again.

[sp1814]

jim360

"In any case, none of this is helpful. The vaccine is vastly less dangerous, by orders of magnitude, than the disease it prevents."

Yes, yes, yes, yes, yes.

[ichkeria]

"Want to share the joke? What did he say? "

That I already explained. And what he didn't offer of course, was his explanation for why he has the answers the scientists don't.

[naomi24]

Ich, I see no explaination. You said he mocked the Times and that it's all clear to Professor Farage ... but that's it. What did he say to make you think it is all clear to him? None of that is clear to me.

[naomi24]

*explanation*

[bobbinwales]

Is spicerack still saying its true that "1,500 people have died shortly after an adverse reaction to the Covid vaccine since Nov2020 in this country" and that these are due to the vaccine, Sounds wrong to me.

[ichkeria]

“ I see no explaination”

That is the irony.

I’m afraid you’re going to struggle as plainly irony isn’t your thing

[jim360]

The world is complicated, Naomi. My posts only acknowledge that. If you want to read taking subtlety and complexity into account as "no but yeah but" then feel free, but it's your failing not mine. Moreover, I'd rather be hesitant and correct than confidently wrong.

There's no sense in pretending that nobody has died from the vaccine. But in nothing like the numbers Spicerack is implying.

[THECORBYLOON]

SPICERACK, if you had scrolled down a wee bit further, you'd have seen (as posted previously),

"The MHRA has received 460 UK reports of suspected ADRs to the Pfizer/BioNTech vaccine in which the patient died shortly after vaccination, 999 reports for the COVID-19 Vaccine AstraZeneca, seven for the COVID-19 Vaccine Moderna and 24 where the brand of vaccine was unspecified. The majority of these reports were in elderly people or people with underlying illness. Usage of the vaccines has increased over the course of the campaigns and as such, so has reporting of fatal events with a temporal association with vaccination however, this does not indicate a link between vaccination and the fatalities reported. *****Review of individual reports and patterns of reporting does not suggest the vaccines played a role in these deaths."***** ( my emphasis added)

[naomi24]

Ich, irony. Okay. :o/

Jim, you hesitatant? If only!

[jim360]

I know what you'd say, about only reading what I write etc., but there's another issue with your interpretation: it doesn't take into account what happens *before* I write. As I said before I won't claim to have performed a comprehensive review, but I did look at several sources before writing my posts above.

I should also point out the distinction between debunking manifestly false (or misleading) figures, and in hesitating over claiming to have the true figures. I know that the number of deaths due directly to the vaccine is nothing like as high as Spicerack's claim/implication. I don't know precisely what the true figure is, not least because nobody will ever know this precisely.

[Spicerack]

jim360 //To be clear, Spicerack's utterly exaggerating the scale of vaccine-caused deaths. //
To be clear , I reported exactly what the Gov. report stated. No more, no less. I haven't claimed to know the scale of vaccine-caused deaths let alone exaggerated them.

//It's possible that I've underestimated the number of deaths in turn, but I'm inclined to think that my estimate of a few hundred directly caused by the vaccine worldwide is closer based on all the evidence I've seen.//

Lol, the back-tracking starts. It wasn't a few hundred, it was one hundred. Still, I'm gratified that you've taken what I said on board.
You should be thanking me for injecting(;-)) a dose of reality into the debate. Not attempting to cast doubt on the facts I introduce.
It only sends your acolytes into spasms of ecstasy and realms of fantasy.

[THECORBYLOON]

"Review of individual reports and patterns of reporting [deaths said to be linked to vaccines] does not suggest the vaccines played a role in these deaths."