The Will Of The People ?

[Canary42]

I wonder how many of the democracy-loving Brextremists will review this with their usual blinkers well in place.

https://uk.yahoo.com/news/britons-want-another-eu-referendum-say-government-bungling-brexit-negotiations-131308791.html

[cassa333]

Agree Jackdaw. NJs post is much more succinct than mine lol

[Theland]

We need the spirit of Churchill and Thatcher.
Oh God, did I really say that?

[Canary42]

/// the spirit of ...Thatcher. ///

The one virtue Thatcher had was her strength and determination in sorting the EU out.

In March 1975 Margaret Thatcher described referendums as “a device of dictators and demagogues”. Thatcher was quoting Clement Attlee who noticed that Hitler, Mussolini and Napoleon III used referendums to legitimise decisions they had made.

[Theland]

Canary - Where are we now? Was it wrong to ask the Great Unwashed like me?

[Canary42]

I wouldn't like to comment

[naomi24]

And speaking of blinkers, take yours off Canary. This is a survey of 1,466 people. That's 1,466. Britons want another referendum screams the headline. Well 700 out of 65 million of them do. Oh dear.

[Jackdaw33]

Quite, Naomi.

[naomi24]

Canary like other Remainers is a trier, Jackdaw. Any port in a storm. Glug, glug.

[Canary42]

You need a lesson in statistics Naomi - there was no poll of 65 million so your statement is clearly nonsense. I accept the sample size was very small and statistically therefore quite flaky. But it makes for an interesting discussion.

And by the way, of this 65 million you talk about, only 17 million voted for Brexit - oh dear.

[naomi24]

Canary, and less voted Remain. Get over it.

[naomi24]

Correction .... fewer, not less. Smacked knees - but still get over it.

[cassa333]

Of the 65m that bothered to vote. Those that didn’t bother... well can they really complain about it. Or indeed can the remainiac remainers use them as a statistical example?

If the rest of the population with a vote voted what makes you think they would vote remain? Maybe those that didn’t bother to vote would statically have voted in the same proportion as those that voted!

I would suggest it better to not pull them in to try to prove some point or other.

[Zacs-Master]

There was nothing like 65 million people eligible to vote at the time of the referendum. It was slightly under 46 million.
https://www.ons.gov.uk/peoplepopulationandcommunity/elections/electoralregistration/bulletins/electoralstatisticsforuk/2017#total-number-of-uk-parliamentary-electors-increases

There certainly wasn’t 65m who bothered to vote.

I keep making the point about pretty substantial tariffs being immediately applied in the event of a no-deal exit but the leave voters seen to be ignoring it.
The FT describes a no-deal scenario thus:
‘The WTO option is the cold hard floor on which the UK will splat down if no safety net is in place in time.’

Of course, there may be ABers who know better than the august specialist financial publication such as the FT.
Or there may just be ABers who’s hatred of the EU is blinding them to the consequences of a no-deal scenario.

[jim360]

700 out of 1,466 is absolutely not the same as 700 out of 65 million.

I mean, there are sound reasons for not taking this poll as definitive, but that piece of statistical illiteracy is not one of them.

[naomi24]

^Quite.

[jim360]

I was calling *your* post rubbish... you knew that, right?

[Old_Geezer]

Some ABers may not have the same agenda as the commercial FT newspaper: they might have the interest of the people as priority instead. Spinning tales of doom is counterproductive; like the boy who cried wolf, there comes a time when the doomsayer says something worth listening to, but has lost all credibility by then.

WTO isn't ideal but works well enough to trade under for many, and can be improved upon when one's counterpart trading nations opt to be reasonable. Tales of Armageddon aren't helpful.

[naomi24]

Indeed I did. It's about as daft as claiming 'Britons want another referendum', based on a count of just 700 hands.

[naomi24]

^That to Jim.

[jim360]

"WTO isn't ideal but works well enough to trade under for many, and can be improved upon when one's counterpart trading nations opt to be reasonable."

The difference is that we don't live under WTO rules for much of our trade, so that transition from the present system to one in which WTO reigns supreme would indeed be painful -- slowing down trade, increasing its costs, etc. One would hope that the doomsday scenarios are exaggerated but still I think our politicians are clearly moving away from the "no deal is better than a bad deal" rhetoric -- albeit too late for some to have realised that this was always false.

* * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * *

Naomi -- in fact the two are *not* equivalently daft. If the survey was taken over a representative sample, then it's safe to say that "Britons want another referendum" is reasonably supported, albeit with some uncertainty; I would have put it as "Britons are likely to want another referendum", and then further surveys would be required to support that claim.

On the other hand, there is no support whatsoever for the claim that "700 out of 1466" is equivalent to "700 out of 65 million", and no-one should be able to say that with a straight face.