fireworks

[Captainebay]

Fireworks should be BANNED, Full Stop, they cause NOTHING but trouble, If the Goverment can't ban them completely, then they should be sold ONLY to Organised events Holders that have a Licence to use them, They are all too easy to buy, Im sickened by the recent news of the Barn Fire in Bury in which a Horse died, this fire was started by Thugs playing with Fireworks. The Barn from what I can gather was a Home for Neglected horses, one horse, the last horse out suffered extensive Burns, and died a day later, the other 4 or 5 horses are suffering terribly. I cannot and will NEVER understand why these dangerous items have never been banned to the Public , however pretty they may be they are a BIG DANGER to People and Animals , those Thugs that caused this unnecessary suffering should recieve the same treatment. Im disgusted .

[Captainebay]

I also like to Think for myself, be myself and do things for myself , but I also like to think of others, People and Animals.. 10ClarionSt ~Your attitude is that of an adolecent School pupil . The WHOLE point of this discussion which I must admit has gone way too far is Banning the sale of Fireworks to the Public unless you can provide a Licence to buy, Fireworks should be offered for sale the week commencing Nov 5 th, Sold to people who have a Licence .. I rest my Case.

[scubadiver]

10ClarionSt- The point you seem to be missing is that the issue most animal owners seem to have with fireworks is that there is no escape for the animals from the noise, even within the confines of their own home.

Most public displays are held in public parks or open ground that, while not ideal, certainly put more of a distance between the display & private houses than the next door neigbour's garden, or the street outside.

The other difference is that public displays generally are held across one or two nights - what bliss to think that my dogs would only be disturbed by fireworks for a couple of nights. Instead, for weeks leading up to bonfire nights, there are fireworks being let off on a continual basis. And they are not the fireworks of a few years ago. There now seems to be a "bigger & louder is better" brigade that are happy to spend up to �30 on a single firework. Totally unsuitable for a "garden" style display, as there are guidelines that come with these fireworks about exclusion distances from buildings, which are totally ignored.

Not only are fireworks available at this time of the year, but there now also seems to be a trend to include fireworks as part of Christmas & New Year celebrations. Where is the history in that?

If the world was full of thoughtless & selfish people like yourself, who then have the gall to try to justify your actions by basically putting two fingers up to the concerns of your neigbours, what a terrible place it would be. Unfortunately, morons like yourself seem to be on the increase - the " I'm alright Jack..f**k everyone else" mentality is on the increase.

[Captainebay]

10ClarionSt. You still DONT get it do you ?? is it because your so far UP YOUR OWN A*SE you just dont get it ? We are NOT banning an historical tradition, we want to BAN the way these Dangerous Items are offered for sale ! It would be interesting at your Weekend display to ask all the people who are invited their opinion on the subject, are they "For" fireworks going off left right and center weeks before and after Nov 5Th, but then thinking about it, the people you associate with are probably on a similar wave length to you.. Arrogant and Ignorant to the REAL reason of this discussion .

[shaneystar]

OK.10CS....Last night my doorbell must have rung umpteen times with halloween geeks. I flatly refuse to answer to the door to what I call glorified begging. If people want to hold a Halloween party in their own homes I have no objection.My elderly neighbour who is bedridden was terrified with all these kids banging on her door.Because we don't partake in this inane practice my son's car was smeared with eggs and flour.
Funny..I don't think so.On top of this fireworks going off left right and centre.Some idiot thought it was funny to shove a firework in the letter box along the road.I have to go out in the garden at night with my dog because the angels who live at the back of me think it's funny to chuck fireworks over our fences into our gardens ..and this goes on for weeks on end not just one night. Night after night we are woken up with the blasted things going off.
They should NOT be on sale to the general public only for displays and handled by people experienced in pyrotechnics.
Fireworks are a wonderful display in the right setting not in my street or backyard every night of the week from now until January.

[jno]

I grew up greatly enjoying November 5; the sound and the spectacle of fireworks are great for kids. They were only on sale for a week or so beforehand - not by law, that was just the only time anyone bought them. Broadly, I think that's still the case, although like Christmas they seem to start a bit earlier each year.

As for pets - well, I find myself in agreement with 10CSt (and unimpressed by the insults directed at him). Neither an animal lover nor an animal hater, except mosquitoes, I nonetheless don't think humans need modify their behaviour to keep animals - ones they don't even know - content. This does not mean condoning cruelty; I would be perfectly happy to see the perpetrators caught and punished. But cruelty to animals existed before fireworks were invented, and will persist long after they are banned.

Meanwhile, I'd encourage people to go out and enjoy themselves; it's the one time a year when any noise louder than a whisper seems to be permissible. Ban guns, ban smoking if you like - both are lethal; but ban fireworks? Too nannyish by half.

[maggie01]

jno In my opinion and its only my opinion. You are talking rubbish.

[Captainebay]

Jno ~ the problem with people joining a debate late is you dont really get the jist as to the main concerns here, the SALE of Fireworks, regardless of whether you like animals or not, the topic was the sale of Bangers to the public.. If you go back to the start read again and you will see what this was really all about and why the insults were directed at 10C all because His/ her attitude was awful they joined in later and then twisted the whole debate around. I give Up !

[Captainebay]

again Maggie, Im with you

[jno]

I read the question - and gave my response to it, in mild terms and explained at some length - and I read the other posts. You want to protect animals but think it's okay to shout insults at humans. (Even my post, it seems, is not merely debatable, it's got to be 'rubbish'.) I think this is wrong. You are of course entitled to disagree; but I shall continue to put humans first.

[shaneystar]

Well I would very much like to get hold of the "humans " who thought it funny to pelt my son's car with eggs and flour.Or the ones who think it appropriate to destroy the mail with a firework.Or the others who think it funny to torment my neighbour. Funny humans if you ask me. I am no killjoy and have often attended firework displays with the kids when they were young..but it's all getting out of hand these days .My neighbours a few doors up let off a horrendous amount of fireworks one evening during the summer because their daughter had passed her driving test ! Very nice when you are having a quiet drink in the garden on a summer evening...I don' t think.

[maggie01]

Its not a question of putting animals before adults. It could quite easily be a child hurt by fireworks. I believe 10clarionst said in a previous reply that he had a friend who was injured in the past. The only reason I thought your reply was rubbish was because of the comment that trying to ban fireworks to the public in your opinion is nannyish. In the wrong hand they are a lethal weapon and the bit about not modifying our lives to keep animals. Thats called caring. To say there will still be cruelty to animals even if fireworks are banned is probably true but if you can prevent it in one way thats got to be better than doing nothing.

[jno]

hi shaneystar (I know you're polite). I'm not defending indefensible behaviour, just defending people's right to put on their own fireworks displays. Treating fireworks as if they were firearms seems all wrong to me. And I'd be very happy to see the back of Halloween, a purely imported fiesta of no local significance whatever and a monument to commercialism. But November 5 is a genuine British tradition and I'm reluctant to see it legislated out of existence. Even for the sake of puppies.

[maggie01]

That is just the point it would not be legislated out of existance just because we no longer let them off in our back gardens. Children could still be taught the meaning of bonfire night and still enjoy the fireworks. I doubt you get much for your money these days and so to pay to watch a display would last longer and you would get more for your money. The jacket potatoes could be cooking in the oven instead of the bonfire (which we don't have in our back gardens these days) for when you get home and that way everyone would be happy. Its just in this country no one seems to like to be told what they can and cannot do even if it does make sense. If people do not want to pay to see a display I am sure you can still see the action from a short distance away.

[jno]

maggie in the wrong hands, cutlery can be lethal, and occasionally is. That's not a reason for banning knives, forks or spoons. Yes, I know children can get hurt. Children can get hurt by many things. This was true in my own childhood. My parents taught me to be careful with fireworks; and I wasn't hurt. I did get hurt once when I slammed my finger in a car door. That wasn't a reason to ban cars. It was a reason why I should start paying more attention to what I was doing (a lesson I learnt).

Some people argue that the reason young people today seem vulnerable to illness is that they've been overprotected. Rather than being allowed to make mud pies, they live in houses where kitchens are scrupulously disinfected. They grow up never having encountered a germ; and when they do meet one, it knocks them over. They would have been better living among germs and developing their own immunity. I think there's a parallel here. Rather than banning fireworks, teach kids about the dangers and how to protect themselves - and you teach them responsibility and self-reliance rather than cocooning them against all possible risk.

Some things are very lethal - I did say I had no objection to banning guns or tobacco, both of which take a great many lives. But in the list of dangerous objects, fireworks don't even come close.

As for caring - well, it's true I don't have pets, and don't have much interest in animal welfare. But there are other sorts of caring. As I hope I've explained above, I care very much about raising children to cope with a messy life, and about teaching them to take care of themselves. I'd sooner have a child well-adjusted to take his/her place in the world than a pet protected from loud noises by restrictive laws. On that, I guess, we disagree permanently.

[jno]

PS maggie your last post hadn't arrived when I was writing mine - I should explain that my basic response is to Captainebay's initial call for fireworks to be 'BANNED, Full Stop'. See, I did read the question. And I think things would have to be a great deal worse before I'd support them being restricted to organised events holders, either.

[scubadiver]

jno- If the tradition were kept to the 5th November, I don't think many people would have much of an issue with it. However, given that each year the "5th November" appears to start earlier & earlier in October, that is where I certainly take issue.

With regards to your statement about treating fireworks as firearms appearing all wrong - when people start throwing bangers and lighting rockets to deliberately direct them at objects, people etc - ie, USING them as firearms, not as they were intended this is where, IMHO the line has been overstepped.

Keep fireworks to the 5th & use them properly - acheive this and I think most complaints & concerns surrounding this debate would disappear. Unfortunately, until this happens, I feel it is justified to call for regulations surrounding their sale & use.

[maggie01]

In an ideal world this debate would never happen. I agree wholeheartedly that children should be taught about the dangers and how to protect themselves. I also think they should be taught how to respect other people but there are always a few bad apples in a bowl that spoil that for the rest and that being the case you have to try to do whats best for everyone that includes animals in my opinion. They cannot speak for themselves. As I said before if people have to let off fireworks in their garden so be it but on Nov 5th. Then everyone is happy.

[jno]

just a thought - I suspect the reason for earlier fireworks sales may be Diwali, though that's just a guess.