Chris Patten

[lindapalmara]

This man has been on the TV this week rubbishing Brexit. Prise coming from a man who, as Governor of Hong Kong, fought for HK to have a democracy all the time he was there. I lived in Hong Kong at the time and was right behind him? However, on his return he was made a European Commissioner! Usually given as a reward or to compensate failure, is Mandleson was given a Commission job for failing as a Minister. I know these people are protecting their fat EU pensions but I think it's a bit rich!

[Zacs-Master]

So what’s the wider issues then?

[naomi24]

You've been told. I've said my bit in the past and I agree with NJ now. Your comprehension clearly isn't up to much, Zacs.

[Zacs-Master]

Where, exactly, have I been told? You’re doing your usual obfuscating when you realise you have no answer. It makes you look childish.

[scooping]

The Pattens, the Majors, the Camerons and the Blairs of this world had their time and they didn't do a very good job. Why on earth should we listen to them now? Blair should stick to making his fortune (11 houses now), Patten is extremely wealthy and hasn't been elected to any office for 20 years. John Major (Back to basics while he was shagging Edwina Currie) should stick to be hon. pres. of the MCC and Cameron is catching up with his neighbour and best mate Jeremy Clarkson (worth 55million) and Blair (something approaching 100million) in prostituting himself to anyone who pays (currently roughly £10,000 an hour). These people are discredited and I don't think it's right that the media call on them constantly for their pontifications.

[Zacs-Master]

I don’t think the media call on them for their opinions. The people you mention just give it and the press delight in presenting it in as sensationalist a way as possible.

[naomi24]

Zacs, I do believe you’re in great danger of seriously boring the pants off the reader so in their interests I’ll say that I don’t want this country governed, regulated, or influenced, in any way whatsoever by either unelected, anonymous, bureaucrats or by the decisions of foreign politicians, or by a mixture of both. That is the wider picture.

[hereIam]

naomi - as usual, extremely well put ...

[naomi24]

Thank you, hereIam. :o)

[ToraToraTora]

for ZM who seems impervious to this. We don't want to be run by a bunch of unelected foreigners, end of. All your semantic drivel about out election processes and whether the EU effects our daily lives are all irrelevant. Even if our government is often a useless sac de merde they are our duly elected useless sac de merde. I'd rather suffer all your hysterical project fear pronouncements x 1000 and be self determinate than live under Juncket and co's Jack boot, capiesh?

[Zacs-Master]

And in what way do those decisions affect your daily life?

(Cue more obfuscation on being bored / not having enough time / saying it’s already been answered when it patently hasn’t ad infinitum).

Ah here IAM has joined in. Well, when I say joined in.......

[Zacs-Master]

No I don’t ‘capiche’. You’ve fallen into the trap of giving me reasons which you can’t back up, just like anyone else. When pushed , NJ has cited some faux altruistic claptrap about poor foreigners and not being able to buy lightbulbs. Can you do any better?

And as for project fear, you’re the ones going around claiming the EU to be some Jackboot clad organisation laying waste to what we once knew as Europe but again being unable to cite any examples of this coming anywhere near to fruition.

[ToraToraTora]

"You’ve fallen into the trap of giving me reasons which you can’t back up" - err, what can't I back up?

[naomi24]

Zacs, your question has been answered - days ago - when I told you that in or out makes no difference to me on a personal level – I can afford it either way.

[albaqwerty]

'unable to cite any examples of this coming anywhere near to fruition'

the EU, imo, has already fruited.

Unelected dictators telling nations what to do and how many fish to catch.

[hereIam]

Well said TTT - hey ZM I've joined in AGAIN !

[New Judge]

Zacs, Zacs. My reasons were because you insisted in pushing the issue. If I had no good reason at all for the UK to leave the EU I would still want us to leave. Not because they make my life better or worse but because I do not want to be ruled by unelected foreigners. Forget the rest because it doesn't matter (to me) a jot.

[DTCwordfan]

There needs to be two or more sides for any functioning democracy - attempts to stifle opinion as here on AB are disgraceful.

And what a load of cobblers as to Patten him being a Commissioner.

He wanted to stand for the leadership of the Cons but that was squashed by his wife, Lavender, as Chris had some serious angina attacks starting in HK. She felt that if he had become PM, it would lead to his early death - his standing as Commissioner was not some trade-off. What surprised me is that he didn't become President. If he had, maybe we would have seen more of an unshackled EEC and maybe we would still be stalwart members of it. A fledgling PM as well that we missed as well, just like others in recent history for various reasons, such as John Smith.

[gulliver1]

Scooping.13.59 you forgot to mention the biggest R, sole of them all .
Thatcher! who did not do a very good job either. Thatcher wounded the UK for life.

[fiction-factory]

gulliver, the thread is nothing to do with Thatcher, and spicerack's post was about ex-leaders/politicians who are still campaigning for Remain. I'm pretty sure Maggie Thatcher has been rather quiet on the subject of Brexit for several years now, and I think it's likely she would have been a Brexiteer if she were still around

[fiction-factory]

^scooping, not spicerack