Votes For 16: Wales Voting Reforms See Voting Age Lowered

mikey4444 | 08:07 Sun 28th Jan 2018 | News

170 Answers

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-wales-politics-42848685

Good ! If people are being taxed, then they deserve the right to vote...why not ?

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Zacs-Master

Best Answer

If it increases turnout by preventing apathy then it’s a good thing. We need to engage young people with politics.

09:44 Sun 28th Jan 2018

Go To Best Answer

Deskdiary

Fair enough.

But.....

If being taxed is your reason why people should be allowed to vote, can we remove those where their sole income is free money provìded by the taxpayer?

They contribute nothing and yet they have just as much say as those who provide them with free money. Doesnt seem fair to me.

emmie

do 16 year old pay tax?

emmie

they do i suppose if they are able to earn over a certain amount, but how much can a 16 year old earn at any rate, unless they are budding entrepreneurs

Gromit

// If people are being taxed, then they deserve the right to vote //

So your position is that voting should be linked to employment. Students, the unemployed, old people, who do not pay tax should be denied the vote. I don’t think you have thought your above statement through.

bhg481

You could argue that, VAT being a tax, anyone who spends money is a taxpayer. That would give anyone who gets pocket money a taxpayer and 5-year olds could vote.

mikey4444

Question Author

Potential anybody can earn enough to pay tax, although for most 16 year old people, wages won't be large enough. But the principle stay the same.

It was one of the reasons given for women bot to have the vote, over 100 years ago !

DD....I appreciate your point, but even people on benefits may potentially pay some tax. What would you do with a person who is in and out of work, and thus in and out of the benefit system ?

But it isn't just the paying of tax that counts in this debate. Decisions taken today, in all walks of political life, will impact on 16 and 17 year olds, so why shouldn't they have a vote ?

mikey4444

Question Author

Gromit....that is not what I am saying at all.

Everybody has the potential to pay tax.....even Betty pays tax this days !

And bhg's point about 5 years olds is rather childish.

Gromit

I am a bit ambiguous about lowering the voting age to 16. Politically I am not bothered either way.

But I am slightly persauded by the arguement that it would bring the rules into line with other things permittable at 16.

bhg481

Mikey - it's childish because it's about children. If you limit voting to income tax payers you eliminate a large portion of the population who don't earn enough; if you include VAT you get to the ludicrous situation where tiny-tots can vote. Where do you draw the line?

mikey4444

Question Author

Glad to have you on board Gromit !

The age for most things have been reduced to 16 these days, so I see this as the next logical step.

It already the case in Scotland, and its going that way here in Wales as well. Perhaps England is getting left behind again ?

mikey4444

Question Author

bhg....simple...at age 16, as in the proposal. Nobody is arguing for little kids to have the vote and you bringing up the issue is just a smokescreen ( with respect ! )

Can't do those emoji things !

emmie

mikey
perhaps England has more sense, don't see a reason to change the voting age to what it is now. Surely most 16 year olds are in school?

bhg481

Mikey - you are the one who linked it to tax-paying.

Deskdiary

Using your argument mikey about 16 year olds voting for their future, then why not 14 years olds? Or 12 year olds?

As for Gromit's point, we could have the daft situation that 16 year old children could be allowed to vote, but could not go into a pub and buy a pint of beer or into a shop to buy a packet of fags.

I don't know about you, but I do not want to go into a pub where 16 years old allowed. They are children.

18 is about right. I'd rather it was 21, but as that's not going to happen, then let's keep it at 18.

emmie

deskdiary is right, leave it at 18.

mikey4444

Question Author

Not sure why being in school is relevant ?

I wasn't able to vote in my first election as an adult, as the voting age was still 21. It was only the next Election, that the basic civil right allowed me to vote.

Here is the argument for 16 and 17 people to vote. I ought to warn our more fragile "righties on here", that it contains a piece from Corbyn, so I expect that they will immediately set out to destroy the debate ! But his point is well made.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/newsbeat/article/41838136/the-case-for-the-voting-age-to-be-lowered-to-16

Gromit

Deskdiary
Our laws are all over the place on the permitted age to do certain things.

16 year olds can join the army (and presumably die for their country). It that circumstance, it would seem odd that they cannot elect the Government that might send them to war.

(Not sure your pub arguement is a good example, as it is widely flouted. Most people would admit to going in a pub before they were 18).

mikey4444

Question Author

DD...I am interested in why you think that 21 is the lowest age that people should vote ?

I have to say, not even the Tories are making that argument !