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Are We *ever* Going To Get Over Wwii ?
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Yet another commemoration - this time 70 years of the Atlantic campaign
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Given that WWII lasted about 5 years by the time you've commemorated a VE day anniversary it seems time to start celebrating anothe anniversary of the start of the War!
I hear the cries of 'ingrate' already and patriotic chests puffing up like pidgeons - but WWI was just as formative to those who fought in it and I don't recall continual commemorations of that from my childhood.
Why are we so obsessed with WWII and are we ever going to get over it?
http://
Given that WWII lasted about 5 years by the time you've commemorated a VE day anniversary it seems time to start celebrating anothe anniversary of the start of the War!
I hear the cries of 'ingrate' already and patriotic chests puffing up like pidgeons - but WWI was just as formative to those who fought in it and I don't recall continual commemorations of that from my childhood.
Why are we so obsessed with WWII and are we ever going to get over it?
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well there are two conveniently forgotten and they weren't exactly small scraps, Korea and Suez.....I am an advocate for better balance in historical documentares and conveyance of history, the rich story of Agincourt or Crecy for example...... The new QE1, I welcome - that is more educational than churning over the same themes time and time again.
The story of RIII was interesting too - and something on King Alfred, if the archaeologists and historians really are going after his grave, should be fascinating too. Also I would love to see an onslaught on trying to find the King John 'loss' of the Crown Jewels in The Wash in my life time.....
The story of RIII was interesting too - and something on King Alfred, if the archaeologists and historians really are going after his grave, should be fascinating too. Also I would love to see an onslaught on trying to find the King John 'loss' of the Crown Jewels in The Wash in my life time.....
Jake.....2 wars in different theatres in different times.
WW1 was basically two armies slogging it out, mainly on land for 4 years, for perhaps 100 metres of gained land.Yes you are right more died in WW1 than WW2.
WW2..In more media friendly times over 5 years and basically throughout the world. Newspapers and films were reporting heroic deeds...no more heroic than WW1 but more, if i can use the term, "glamorous" and hero producing.
HMS Hood (pride of the British Navy) sunk by one salvo of the German battleship Bismark. Seeking out and sinking the Bismark.
The raid on Peenemunde which was producing V2 rockets which were causing havoc and death of civilians in London.
The Dambusters...633 squadron ( now a squadron of Tornadoes) attacking the dams of the Ruhr with the bouncing bomb of Barnes Wallace.
Douglas Bader, Guy Penrose Gibson DSO,DFC V.C and even the youngest General in the Luftwaffe Adolf Galland.......all heroes of that time.
Cockleshell heroes...marine commandos canoeing for 60 miles in enemy occupied territory attaching limpet mines to German shipping.
I could go on......but i doubt that you would understand one word of which i am talking about.
WW1 was basically two armies slogging it out, mainly on land for 4 years, for perhaps 100 metres of gained land.Yes you are right more died in WW1 than WW2.
WW2..In more media friendly times over 5 years and basically throughout the world. Newspapers and films were reporting heroic deeds...no more heroic than WW1 but more, if i can use the term, "glamorous" and hero producing.
HMS Hood (pride of the British Navy) sunk by one salvo of the German battleship Bismark. Seeking out and sinking the Bismark.
The raid on Peenemunde which was producing V2 rockets which were causing havoc and death of civilians in London.
The Dambusters...633 squadron ( now a squadron of Tornadoes) attacking the dams of the Ruhr with the bouncing bomb of Barnes Wallace.
Douglas Bader, Guy Penrose Gibson DSO,DFC V.C and even the youngest General in the Luftwaffe Adolf Galland.......all heroes of that time.
Cockleshell heroes...marine commandos canoeing for 60 miles in enemy occupied territory attaching limpet mines to German shipping.
I could go on......but i doubt that you would understand one word of which i am talking about.
Sqad, you've just named a list of 1950s films. Sink the Bismarck. The Dambusters. Cocklehell Heroes. Reach for the Sky.
I think jake (whose hisotrical knowledge has always impressed me) is well aware of all of these, but is asking why they have largely wiped the much more lethal WW1 from popular memory.
I think jake (whose hisotrical knowledge has always impressed me) is well aware of all of these, but is asking why they have largely wiped the much more lethal WW1 from popular memory.
Yeah yeah yeah
Dambusters - heroes with moustaches waffle waffle waffle
Greatest generation all that guff
Oh I understand very wekk sqad - it's all about preferring to live in the past rather than look to the future.
I mean if you're nothing special it's nice to think that you are because you're a member of a special group - a special nation nation with a heroic past
- a special race
- A superior race
- Arian say
Oh sorry that's the other lot isn't it?
Patriotism gets so confusing trying to keep track of which is the greatest nation
Dambusters - heroes with moustaches waffle waffle waffle
Greatest generation all that guff
Oh I understand very wekk sqad - it's all about preferring to live in the past rather than look to the future.
I mean if you're nothing special it's nice to think that you are because you're a member of a special group - a special nation nation with a heroic past
- a special race
- A superior race
- Arian say
Oh sorry that's the other lot isn't it?
Patriotism gets so confusing trying to keep track of which is the greatest nation
I understand what you mean Jake, and I do sometimes find it a bit tiresome when the imagery of WW2 is exploited for political means. A UKIP poster of a few years ago is probably the most striking example I can think of off the top of my head, but all parties have been guilty of similarly cringey discourse at some point or another:
I also find it a bit irritating how our understanding of history and current affairs often seems to be extremely heavily anchored to WW2. Every dictator invites a comparison to Hitler, every international situation harks back to 1939 ("It's a good thing we didn't think like you did in 1939!" etc.), every persecution complex is vindicated by the speaker comparing his opponents to the Nazis.
These tropes are often accepted pretty much uncritically, even when they're not particularly valid comparisons - which in turn can undermine their use in relatively fewer contexts where they *are* valid comparisons. It's extremely frustrating.
Having said that, I do think the pride felt in British culture over our involvement is merited. The fact that the UK did its part to overcome fascism is something we can justifiably look back on with some pride (though we shouldn't allow it to get in the way of the uncomfortable truth -which is that the defeat of Hitler is something which sinister Uncle Joe can probably take more credit for...)
I also find it a bit irritating how our understanding of history and current affairs often seems to be extremely heavily anchored to WW2. Every dictator invites a comparison to Hitler, every international situation harks back to 1939 ("It's a good thing we didn't think like you did in 1939!" etc.), every persecution complex is vindicated by the speaker comparing his opponents to the Nazis.
These tropes are often accepted pretty much uncritically, even when they're not particularly valid comparisons - which in turn can undermine their use in relatively fewer contexts where they *are* valid comparisons. It's extremely frustrating.
Having said that, I do think the pride felt in British culture over our involvement is merited. The fact that the UK did its part to overcome fascism is something we can justifiably look back on with some pride (though we shouldn't allow it to get in the way of the uncomfortable truth -which is that the defeat of Hitler is something which sinister Uncle Joe can probably take more credit for...)
We commemorate the fact that a multitude of very brave people fought tyranny and evil, the last time it was done on a global scale.
Ironically, those that died in the service of this country in warding off such unimaginable horrors did so in order to maintain and preserve the freedom so many of us enjoy today, to the point that some are allowed to spout a diatribe without fear of prosecution or oppression.
Whodathunkit?
Ironically, those that died in the service of this country in warding off such unimaginable horrors did so in order to maintain and preserve the freedom so many of us enjoy today, to the point that some are allowed to spout a diatribe without fear of prosecution or oppression.
Whodathunkit?
jake-the-peg
/// Are We *ever* Going To Get Over Wwii ? ///
Imagine what the reaction would be if I were to put, "are we *ever* going to get over slavery"?
Well apart from something that took place nearly 200 years ago, WW2 happened in my life time and if the Allies had not won there would have been a more up to date return to slavery.
/// but WWI was just as formative to those who fought in it and I don't recall continual commemorations of that from my childhood. ///
Blimey jake were you born prior to WW2, because I am sure there were many in the 20s and early 30s who carried out continuous commemorations, ie the building of the Cenotaph and the burying of the 'Unknown Soldier' plus the huge number of other memorials in every Hamlet, Village, Town and City in the country, then of course along came WW2 and peoples minds and thoughts were focused on much more immediate thoughts.
As I suspect you were not even born during these times, so how can you ever know what it was like, so as to take part in the celebrations, incidentally no one I would have thought would celebrate the start of WW2, as you suggested, the end maybe but never the beginning.
/// Are We *ever* Going To Get Over Wwii ? ///
Imagine what the reaction would be if I were to put, "are we *ever* going to get over slavery"?
Well apart from something that took place nearly 200 years ago, WW2 happened in my life time and if the Allies had not won there would have been a more up to date return to slavery.
/// but WWI was just as formative to those who fought in it and I don't recall continual commemorations of that from my childhood. ///
Blimey jake were you born prior to WW2, because I am sure there were many in the 20s and early 30s who carried out continuous commemorations, ie the building of the Cenotaph and the burying of the 'Unknown Soldier' plus the huge number of other memorials in every Hamlet, Village, Town and City in the country, then of course along came WW2 and peoples minds and thoughts were focused on much more immediate thoughts.
As I suspect you were not even born during these times, so how can you ever know what it was like, so as to take part in the celebrations, incidentally no one I would have thought would celebrate the start of WW2, as you suggested, the end maybe but never the beginning.
Oops forgot to link to the poster I mentioned:
http://
http://
// Did people get bored before reaching the end of the question? //
I did but I pressed on regardless. I think my point about the uniquely disastrous circumstances that a nazi victory would have had for modern europe/the world was valid, but you haven't addressed it, probably because it doesn't fit with your agenda of wanting to blether on about jingoism and patriotic chests puffing up like pigeons etc.
I did but I pressed on regardless. I think my point about the uniquely disastrous circumstances that a nazi victory would have had for modern europe/the world was valid, but you haven't addressed it, probably because it doesn't fit with your agenda of wanting to blether on about jingoism and patriotic chests puffing up like pigeons etc.
jake-the-peg
/// Perhaps we could reintroduce rationing - of the History channel! ///
Obviously you are on a strict diet from it, so rationing of the History Channel would have no effect on you whatsoever.
jno
I've got nothing against remembering those who fought and died; I can't see how recovering sunken German bombers is really going to help.
/// Perhaps we could reintroduce rationing - of the History channel! ///
Obviously you are on a strict diet from it, so rationing of the History Channel would have no effect on you whatsoever.
jno
I've got nothing against remembering those who fought and died; I can't see how recovering sunken German bombers is really going to help.
/Are We *ever* Going To Get Over Wwii ?/
Well many of the people involved never have or never did - for very good reasons
And their continued existence is what drives these commemorations
I seem to recall the Merchant Marine wanted a 'campaign medal' rather than a monument but hey ho.
/but WWI was just as formative to those who fought in it and I don't recall continual commemorations of that from my childhood. /
jtp - was your childhood in the 20s and 30s?
Mine wasn't, but i'm pretty sure there were many commemorations of WW1 in that period then after it was bundled together with 'Poppy Day' which is still fixed at the date of the 1918 Armistice.
/patriotic chests puffing up like pidgeons/
I think that may be your personal projection
- for many WW2 veterans, commemoration is more likely to produce tears when young comrades or relatives who didn't 'make it' are remembered.
Like many things in life - if there are people motivated to make this happen - why not?
No one is forcing you to take part
Well many of the people involved never have or never did - for very good reasons
And their continued existence is what drives these commemorations
I seem to recall the Merchant Marine wanted a 'campaign medal' rather than a monument but hey ho.
/but WWI was just as formative to those who fought in it and I don't recall continual commemorations of that from my childhood. /
jtp - was your childhood in the 20s and 30s?
Mine wasn't, but i'm pretty sure there were many commemorations of WW1 in that period then after it was bundled together with 'Poppy Day' which is still fixed at the date of the 1918 Armistice.
/patriotic chests puffing up like pidgeons/
I think that may be your personal projection
- for many WW2 veterans, commemoration is more likely to produce tears when young comrades or relatives who didn't 'make it' are remembered.
Like many things in life - if there are people motivated to make this happen - why not?
No one is forcing you to take part
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