All Right,you Women!

[FredPuli43]

Which of you thinks of yourself as a feminist?What do you think of when you hear the word? I ask because my ex hates the word. Now,she is what the world might regard as a feminist. She is the reason why clubs have to admit women on equal terms to men (no "Lady Members" for example) because she drafted and forced through the Act's provision which made it so. She is the one who made it law that defaulting fathers could lose their cars (yes,it's rarely enforced but it's there) . Yet she is not a feminist but "an egalitarian" as she puts it.

[woofgang]

I agree with her. I don't want to promote the rights of women over men, certainly don't think that all penetrative sex is rape (oh yes, that was a belief) and so on....I just think that women and men should be treated equally, both in terms of law and good manners.

[Sharingan]

I too hate the word, it conjours up ideas in people's heads that simply don't fit me, even though I think I am every bit as good as any man at most things (obvious strength based things and so forth aside). I don't think it's helpful that a lot of modern feminists are still portraying women as victims of men all over the place in this country, when we simply are not unless we choose to allow ourselves to be.Individuals may indeed be, but it's not a gender wide thing, so no the term irritates me too and I don't want it applied to me.

[Canary42]

Feminism does seem at times to seek a matriarchal society to replace our still quite strongly patriarchal one. In simple terms "it's our turn now".

This is hardly surprising, but I can understand the equality seekers shying away from it, it's replacing one evil with another.

But will the male stranglehold be fully broken (as opposed to token gesturism) otherwise ?

[FredPuli43]

Oh,it will Canary. It's like a disease for men; you may never know that it's fatal until it's taken over your whole body ;)

There is always a new generation of males who will see women as absolutely equal, but better at giving birth when necessary. And therein lies the future.You can't change minds by passing laws. But you can change minds by new acceptance, that the boy of today thinks that the thinking of his father or grandfather is just the tiniest bit of what he can't quite go along with.And he learns that by degrees, a process not helped by feminists finding discrimination in everything, but by being gently led to notice subtle discrimination. His mother should do this, but she herself doesn't always notice it, having been raised with it. The price women pay may be that the man doesn't open doors or stand when a woman enters a room, but that's nothing when the same man think she as good a prospective surgeon, judge, director, or human being as anyone.

[FredPuli43]

^tiniest bit as what" ^ not "of what he can't"

[emmie]

not really, but i am an advocate for rights for women, who by and large have had a bad deal, and in many parts of the world continue to do so.
it's not about being a feminist, it's about being a person, human being, and one of half the population of the world, if i don't stand up and say what i believe in, then that is no use to anyone.

[emmie]

canary, no that is not the case, most women don't want to overthrow men, they just want to be treated fairly. Almost the first victims in war zones are women and children, those who get less by way of pay are women, in UK that is still the case, think what it must be like in many countries that see women as less than human, breeding machines, to be used and abused.
In UK two women every week are killed by a partner or ex, that is shocking, not to mention the cases that we don't hear about of abuse, mental and physical. That is has been mostly a patriarchal society in UK is something we should be ashamed of, seeing as how women have as many rights in life but not in law, appalling waste if you ask me.

[netibiza]

Agree with woofy, we are all equal although naturally different.

[naomi24]

No, I’m not a feminist, and ‘feminists’ are arrogant in presuming to speak for all women. They don’t. The plain fact is men and women are different - but you knew that, didn’t you? :o) - and therefore can never be ‘equal’. However, that doesn’t mean that one should ever be considered less than the other - as frequently happens. I think the title ‘Ms’ is a shortened form of ‘Misery’. ;o)

Vive la difference!

[emmie]

i would only want my rights in law to be upheld, that my right to be a free person, marry whom i choose, or not, to be able to have the same pay rates as my male counterpart, that isn't necessarily the case. In many parts of the UK there are women who are not married in UK law, but from Sharia, those do not have the same rights in marriage as we do, so how do you propose to protect them. Time stopped to think how far we have come in the equality stakes, but how far we still have to go. Young men's attitudes may not be changing the way some hope, especially in the more conservative Asian, African communities, who see the patriarchal system as their right.
Some who were not old enough to remember the times of struggle to get a degree of parity with men in law, can't have any idea just how hard that has been.
if a woman has sex willingly, would go along with the statement about penetrative sex, but if she isn't, but it's penetrative, then that is rape, sorry that makes a nonsense of your statement woofgang.

[ummmm]

Agree 100% with Naomi.

[meglet]

There is a difference between radical feminism and liberal feminism, and I would consider myself one of the latter. Feminism has made huge strides in the UK in the last 100 years in trying to attain equality for women (I'm thinking suffrage, divorce laws and, more recently, primogeniture). It seems to me feminism in the 70s and 80s was more radical and actually put the cause back quite a way as it alienated men. And equality with men will not come about without their co-operation.

Feminism needs a bit of a reinvention in my view to attract the younger female generation.

[themorrigan]

I think the need for Feminism in certain countries, including the UK, will fizzle out within the next generation. I see my nephews and nieces in their 20's with radically different attitudes to one another than even I have, and certainly my mother and grandmother had. The Roles of men and women within a household have changed, more women are in high management than ever before, and these days women do not expect to have doors opened for them and other things deemed 'polite' a generation ago. The radical 'man-haters' will always be there, but they don't want equality, they prefer supremacy, and unfortunately will hover around for years making mockery of what true Feminism was.

[woofgang]

em10 "sorry that makes a nonsense of your statement woofgang."
em10, I dont understand
my comment
" (I) certainly don't think that all penetrative sex is rape (oh yes, that was a belief)"

Your comment
"if a woman has sex willingly, would go along with the statement about penetrative sex, but if she isn't, but it's penetrative, then that is rape, sorry that makes a nonsense of your statement woofgang."

I have read your comment over and over and can't make sense of it????

[Eve]

I don't class myself as a feminist though I can't deny that I have benefitted from those who did. I have the right to vote, to education, to marry whom I choose etc... and can't say I'd have been able to have achieved some of the things I have otherwise.

That said, given that things have changed a great deal, I believe in equality (and am against true discrimination) so that as it is reasonable and practical.

[AB Editor]

Kids do feminism:

http://www.brainpickings.org/index.php/2013/07/01/letters-to-ms-kids-feminism/

[emmie]

if a woman doesn't want sex but the man does, be it boyfriend, husband, stranger, then that is not consensual sex, to me that would be rape.
sometime things get lost in translation.
your comments at 06.05 seem to suggest for what it's worth that there are some forms of penetrative sex that would not be considered rape.

[Zeuhl]

^
em

i think woof was referring to a notion that some extremist feminists espoused that all forms of penetrative sex were 'rape'

[emmie]

would be a strange attitude if so, i have never bought into that at all.

[Zeuhl]

Fundamentally, I think it is unhelpful for a belief in the social, political, and economic equality of the sexes to appear to be interested only in one of them