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the first commandment
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As A Jew, I count the first commandment as "I am the Lord your God, who brought you out of the land of Egypt, the house of slavery"
(Some faiths don't count this as a commandment, rather they think it a little preamble. Throat-clearing, as it were)
However, if indeed this is the first commandment, what is it commanding us to do?
Please don't reply that it means "You will believe that I am the Lord your God....." as I reject the notion that one can 'command' belief. People will believe, or they won't. You cannot make people believe anything...
(Some faiths don't count this as a commandment, rather they think it a little preamble. Throat-clearing, as it were)
However, if indeed this is the first commandment, what is it commanding us to do?
Please don't reply that it means "You will believe that I am the Lord your God....." as I reject the notion that one can 'command' belief. People will believe, or they won't. You cannot make people believe anything...
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God brought them from slavery, yet no sooner had they taken over the Promised Land they too had enslaved the few local tribes they did not massacre.
This was the punishment for their "treachery" in negotiating a treaty based on a lie about their origin. They put on worn out clothes and saddles and told the Israelites they had come from far way and sought an agreement of peace.
Once again we see the same evils perpetrated against the Israelites inflicted by them upon others. Those who seek peace are punished. Violence and biggotted self serving hypocracy is the basis of the Bible.
And people wonder why this is exactly what we see in the MiddleEast to this day.
This was the punishment for their "treachery" in negotiating a treaty based on a lie about their origin. They put on worn out clothes and saddles and told the Israelites they had come from far way and sought an agreement of peace.
Once again we see the same evils perpetrated against the Israelites inflicted by them upon others. Those who seek peace are punished. Violence and biggotted self serving hypocracy is the basis of the Bible.
And people wonder why this is exactly what we see in the MiddleEast to this day.
The commandment as quoted does not read as direction but a preamble about the identity of God.
My understanding is the First Commandment as taken by the Christians is "Thou shalt worship no God but Me."
Personally this is the commandment I have most trouble with. I believe worship itself in all forms to be an evil practice. In worship one aborogates all concepts of responsibility for thought and action in favour of a higher authority.
This has invariably led to corrupt leaders guiding the masses into perpetrating immoral violence.
The archetypal example is God testing Abraham by asking him to kill his own son. This is the kind of obedience religion seeks. Kill whatever I say on my command in the name of God without thought. It has been used throughout history to drive conflict.
The God of the Bible is a violent god and no decent person would worship Him if they understood what they were doing.
My understanding is the First Commandment as taken by the Christians is "Thou shalt worship no God but Me."
Personally this is the commandment I have most trouble with. I believe worship itself in all forms to be an evil practice. In worship one aborogates all concepts of responsibility for thought and action in favour of a higher authority.
This has invariably led to corrupt leaders guiding the masses into perpetrating immoral violence.
The archetypal example is God testing Abraham by asking him to kill his own son. This is the kind of obedience religion seeks. Kill whatever I say on my command in the name of God without thought. It has been used throughout history to drive conflict.
The God of the Bible is a violent god and no decent person would worship Him if they understood what they were doing.
Beso:
Wrong again(!)
The SECOND commandment is "You will have no other Gods before me, nor bow down before any graven images", which strikes me as TWO commandments. But that's another argument. Had you read the question, you will note that I had already mentioned the fact that Christians don't count "I am the Lord your God" as commandment number one.
That said, I find myself in the unusual position of agreeing with you on the subjest of the binding of Isaac. Up to a point. It is true that God asked Abraham to sacrifice his son, Isaac, to him. However, God knew that this was a test. But the fact remains that Abraham didn't!
Although, were you to read the story for yourself, you will see that when Isaac asks of Abraham, "Where is the sacrificial animal?" Abraham replies, "God will provide". There are those who will argue that Abraham knew that an alternative would be forthcoming, as long as he kept faith with God.
Wrong again(!)
The SECOND commandment is "You will have no other Gods before me, nor bow down before any graven images", which strikes me as TWO commandments. But that's another argument. Had you read the question, you will note that I had already mentioned the fact that Christians don't count "I am the Lord your God" as commandment number one.
That said, I find myself in the unusual position of agreeing with you on the subjest of the binding of Isaac. Up to a point. It is true that God asked Abraham to sacrifice his son, Isaac, to him. However, God knew that this was a test. But the fact remains that Abraham didn't!
Although, were you to read the story for yourself, you will see that when Isaac asks of Abraham, "Where is the sacrificial animal?" Abraham replies, "God will provide". There are those who will argue that Abraham knew that an alternative would be forthcoming, as long as he kept faith with God.
Lonnie:
Sorry, you're wrong about that. God was saying to a people used to worshiping many gods that from now on they would worship God alone.
Why would there be more than one God. He is all knowing, all powerful. What would the other Gods do? Why would you need more than one God?
As He himself put it:
"Hear oh Israel, the Lord is God, the Lord is One"
Sorry, you're wrong about that. God was saying to a people used to worshiping many gods that from now on they would worship God alone.
Why would there be more than one God. He is all knowing, all powerful. What would the other Gods do? Why would you need more than one God?
As He himself put it:
"Hear oh Israel, the Lord is God, the Lord is One"
The Hebrew tradition of completly studying the Tanakh in one year (parshat ha-shavua ) can be traced to the Babylonian captivity, in all liklihood. The Hebrew Masoretic text, for example, contains verse endings which the Talmudic tradition teaches are of ancient origin. The actual division of the Torah into today's (Christian) Chapter and Verse occurred very late, probably in the in the A.D. 1500's.
All of this is said to make the point that often misunderstandiings arise in interpretation due to the arbritrary nature of such divisions.
While the Greek of the New Covenant lends itself more easily to such divisions, ancient Hebrew and Aramaic do not. I believe this is the crux of your dilemma. I've always believed Exodus (Sefer Shemot Chapter 20 reads more easily when done in the Hebrew with the more natural spaces indicating divisions. . In fact, the Book of Exodus in the Hebrew is a uninterupted continuation of Genesis (Bereshlt) (You gotta watchout for the robots on this site that will see words within words and delete them as obscene). At any rate, this makes sense to me...
Shalu Shlom Yerushalayim...
All of this is said to make the point that often misunderstandiings arise in interpretation due to the arbritrary nature of such divisions.
While the Greek of the New Covenant lends itself more easily to such divisions, ancient Hebrew and Aramaic do not. I believe this is the crux of your dilemma. I've always believed Exodus (Sefer Shemot Chapter 20 reads more easily when done in the Hebrew with the more natural spaces indicating divisions. . In fact, the Book of Exodus in the Hebrew is a uninterupted continuation of Genesis (Bereshlt) (You gotta watchout for the robots on this site that will see words within words and delete them as obscene). At any rate, this makes sense to me...
Shalu Shlom Yerushalayim...
First off, and apologies for not saying it earlier, welcome to the site TorahBoy ,
But as far as your explanation on this goes, i'm sorry, but thats mans interpretation, as is the whole God concept.
I studied under Rabbi Bernard Hooker, if you Google, you'll find him, and there were quite a few inconsituancies that there were no explanations for, and I couldn't agree with his
But as far as your explanation on this goes, i'm sorry, but thats mans interpretation, as is the whole God concept.
I studied under Rabbi Bernard Hooker, if you Google, you'll find him, and there were quite a few inconsituancies that there were no explanations for, and I couldn't agree with his
So if there is an extra commandment before the one normally taken to be the first by the Christians then which other one do the Jews leave out to still come up with ten?
Moreover Torahboy still hasn't enlightened us on the crux of the matter.
Commandments are "thou shalt" statements. "I am" statements are not commands. Little wonder it is considered as a preamble by the Christians.
Moreover Torahboy still hasn't enlightened us on the crux of the matter.
Commandments are "thou shalt" statements. "I am" statements are not commands. Little wonder it is considered as a preamble by the Christians.
Clearly Torahboy came here for his religious question time. Of course this does not mean he need take the slightest notice of the answers.
As is usual in religion the supposed questioning is just an excuse to tell everyone else that only his interpretation of the faith is correct.
Some Christians say a faith untested is no faith at all and this clearly applies to Torahboy.
As is usual in religion the supposed questioning is just an excuse to tell everyone else that only his interpretation of the faith is correct.
Some Christians say a faith untested is no faith at all and this clearly applies to Torahboy.
Beso is right when he says The commandment as quoted does not read as direction but a preamble about the identity of God. As it's written, it isn't a commandment.
You say Lonnie is wrong, and ask 'why would you need more than one God?' You may believe he is wrong, but you can't possibly know he's wrong. By the same token, I would ask why you would need any God?
You say Lonnie is wrong, and ask 'why would you need more than one God?' You may believe he is wrong, but you can't possibly know he's wrong. By the same token, I would ask why you would need any God?
My posts are based on what is written in the Bible.
The Hebrews claimed to have used swords to slaughter at least many tens of thousands of people in at least 32 tribes. No man woman or child was spared in most cases. Can you imagine the terror?
They claimed that God gave them the strength to win despite being greatly outnumbered. This suggests that their victims were not prepared for the attack, probably because they had been living in peace with their neighbours.
They enslaved at leat two tribes who did nothing but try to make peace with them.
They put the stolen gold and silver in a box. The box was so holy that once taken into a house it was inappropriate for a woman or child to ever enter that house again.
Even if it was an allegorical tale that did not really happen. The lessons to be learned from it is that with God on your side you can achieve anything and justify it even when it is genocide.
You do not have answers for these matters. It is the Bible that preaches hatred, not me. The believers are just too hypnotised by to realise it. What do you think all that rocking and swaying while you read it is about?
The Hebrews claimed to have used swords to slaughter at least many tens of thousands of people in at least 32 tribes. No man woman or child was spared in most cases. Can you imagine the terror?
They claimed that God gave them the strength to win despite being greatly outnumbered. This suggests that their victims were not prepared for the attack, probably because they had been living in peace with their neighbours.
They enslaved at leat two tribes who did nothing but try to make peace with them.
They put the stolen gold and silver in a box. The box was so holy that once taken into a house it was inappropriate for a woman or child to ever enter that house again.
Even if it was an allegorical tale that did not really happen. The lessons to be learned from it is that with God on your side you can achieve anything and justify it even when it is genocide.
You do not have answers for these matters. It is the Bible that preaches hatred, not me. The believers are just too hypnotised by to realise it. What do you think all that rocking and swaying while you read it is about?
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