It is not her house

[Shelley22]

My grandad helped his niece out 15 years ago because her parents split up. He bought a house and put it in her name on the deeds. He told her it was for a year until she felt secure then they would change the house back into his name. LIek a trust but the deeds say her name only. It was just to help her stand on her two feet and so she would not run away from her parents again. Grnadad is from a trustworthy era and left it all to the solicitor as he did not know much about it then.

She subsequently ran away and nothing was heard of her. As the house was grandads and he knew it was his he started to rent it out. He had paid for it with his money and worke don it etc.

He did the house up and has rented it out legally ever since on and off.

She found out through a family friend that her names on the deeds. The green eyed monster came out and after fifteen years she is back. She has never had any post to this house in her name ever, she has never paid a penny as she was 17 and did not have a job and her parents through her out so she could not have afforded the house. Everything was done on a trustworthy basis by grandad tryignto help his family out.

Her husband and her have been claiming social security benefits all these years and now are fraudulently tryign to claim it is their house and the woman had died leaving it in her name.

How can the legal system be so unfair and outdated?

Basically she is saying it is hers when it is not. When in fact it is not as she has not put a penny to it ever.

Subsequently when she eloped she did so with a suppresive man and they have been claiming benefits ever since as the house was never intended to be hers and grandad thought he was doing everything by the book.

She wants house which worth about 70 k . Grnadad can prove he bought it and has looked after it and was a landlorld. When she had nothing except the clothes on her back.

Help?

[Peter Pedant]

For Chrissakes Shelley, stop trying to get free legal advice on the internet and go and see a lawyer!

I now it will cost, but the sum at stake is large (70k) I noticed.

Hgrove and maud have given good advice - you do very obviously have an equitable interest, it is established in a case called Dyer v Dyer i think 1767, (purchase of a house in the name of another). Presumably you and your grandad with the judicious use of receipts can prove what you re saying.

But really...what you need is  a lawyer.....and not us

 

Goo d Luck

[Shelley22]

We have paid for legal advice Peter with a firm i explained whose first solicitor who has left and the second one does not seem as sure and i was trying to find out exactly where grandpa stands as solicitors do not everything. Thus the need for independant research. In between hospital visits and the rest its impossible to go the library to do research and the peopel on this site have been genuinely helpful.

Hgrove was kind enough to explain that just because she is not confident in the area does not mean there is not a case to answer.

Also Maud was going to explain something kindly before and that is what i was trying to ascertain so when we go the the solicitors we can ask questions as believe it or not  Peter i was not going to turn into a barrister and take it to court myself.

It really is not about free legal advice but people singing from the same hymnsheet to give you confidence as having the knowledge and right lawyer makes the difference. The sum maybe large and i hope he can recover it for his health and partner and all us kids are quite stable and independant in our own lives.

Thank you for your kind words Peter. I will try and find the case and i wish the new solicitor had as much confidence in the area as you all do.

[Shelley22]

Peter Pedant...on alighter note that does not stand for peter pedantic does it??

Yes he does have receipts but he is old school and he has foind boxes etc but this solicitor seems to be stuck on the fact the name on the deeds are the nieces. Anyway I look forward to hearing from Maud before i try and sort something out on Monday re instructing the barrister and i hope the rest of those who have helped have a nice weekend.

 

[Maud]

1. Very essential now that you simplify your story, which should be that g/f gifted a property to a wayward niece on the essential condition that she did not run away again. The niece breached the condition by running away again, whereupon g/f took back his gift. The niece remained incommunicado for fifteen years.

2. Before starting any sort of head-to-head with the niece, you must enter a Caution against the property at the Land Registry. A Caution prevents the existing Land Registry Entry from being altered in any way until the Caution is lifted, thereby preventing sale and warning off lenders. It is usually permanent, although the LR can impose a time limit. It can only be lifted by g/f when his claim is settled, unusually by the LR if later they think the claim defective or by successful application to a Court.

3. A Caution is entered by way of a Unilateral Notification to your District LR Office (LR fee �40). This is done on LR Form UN 1, which you can print off for reference by going to www.landreg.gov.uk then Publications/Forms then Forms.

4. The critical part of UN 1 is what is entered at Box 11. In your case it must be along the lines of "The declarant claims to be the true and only owner of the property and is calling for the Entry on the Land Register to be amended to show him as the Sole Proprietor".

5. You must then commence an application to the LR to change the Entry. This involves a small number of LR Forms (and a further LR Fee of �40) which, although they are straightforward,  will require the assistance of a solicitor to complete.

 

 

[Maud]

Apparently we are limited to the number of characters in a post now, so this is a continuation:

6. If not contested by the niece it will go through quite quickly (around a week). If contested, it will either go to a hearing before a Land Registrar or to a civil Court. Try to keep with the Registrar as it is usually simpler, but remember that they do have the power to send it directly to the High Court. Consider grasping the nettle by giving the niece some money to shut up and clear off.

7. Remember that at the LR all of this will go before a Registrar who is in fact a Senior Solicitor. It is therefore essential that your legal representatives be used to dealing with the Registry and experienced in putting awkward matters before a Registrar in a way which is professionally understood. Many are not.

[Maud]

PS. I only read through the other posts after I had typed the above. I must stress to you, and this is vitally important, that the absolute core of this matter is how grandfather came to take back his gift. If you get this in any way wrong the whole thing will collapse and, in harsh fact, could become very nasty against grandfather. However, it is perfectly acceptable and legal to state that grandfather made the gift conditional by the oral statement when gifting "I give you this house upon the condition that you do not run away again" and that when the neice breached the condition he took the gift back, which he was entitled to do. But all of you must sing loudly, clearly and only these words and be prepared to go on Oath as to their truth. If not, you have no case on the other information provided.

[Mrs_Pegasus]

Sorry to come in late on this.

My problem with reporting her to the DWP is that she could then sell the house to pay off her debt?

I worked in HB fraud for many years and then as an external auditor so i have read many cases similar to this and I am afraid on a number of occassions to raise the money for the fraud charge the people have had to sell the property.

This action could really have a nasty sting in the tail.

I am not a legal eagle but going on the facts you have stated here, to all intents and purposes she is the legal owner and she could therefore sell the property.

Hope this helps.

 

[Hgrove]

Shelley, having read Maud's advice and your description of your grandfather, I am slightly concerned that he might sound a bit unsure about the version of events described by Maud... I think you may have to do some "work" on him to give him the confidence to really believe how things went... to prevent things turning potentially nasty against him... I hope things turn out the best possible way for you and grandfather.

[Shelley22]

Hi Maud, Hgrove. All.

Apologies for the delay but the system was down. I really do appreciate all your effort and hard work. I came upon this site after a somewhat subdued session with grandad after the session with the new solicitor.

I have found everyones advice useful and i really hope it is all resolved for his sake and grans who is te true rock.

. Thank you All and i will keep you posted. I have found all the advice useful as it is hard when one goes to a professional as our local solicitors do not seem to specialise so we need to find an expert who is confident and thank you all for your support