Isaac vs. Ishmael

[Raydude]

Why do Muslims think that Ishmael was the son that Abraham was to sacrifice? Surely the Bible / torah is an earlier work and thus puts Islam's belief that Ishmael was to be sacrificed into dis-repute?

[TommyC]

Yes, indeed it does, to a rationally-minded person - but logic and rationality do not always come into play where religious belief is concerned. The entire history of Israel, and the millenniums of aggression from its Arab neighbours, stems directly from the enmity between Isaac, the legitimate, loved son, and Ishmael, the son of the quarreling, aggressive slave-girl Hagar. In order to raise Ishmael above his lowly illegitimate status (and his hated full-Jew half-brother Isaac) the Moslem scholars and teachers have taken progressively more liberties with the historical facts, culminating in their presentation of their forefather Ishmael, instead of Isaac, being the put-upon, long-suffering, more favoured son -in defiance of the simple biblical record.

[Raydude]

thanks for your reply TommyC

[nez]

Why do Christians and Jews think it was not ishmael? Because it is what is written down in the holy books. As for the torah and the bible, It is believed by muslims that these are holy scriptures undoubtedly changes by humans and thus they are the scriptures which have been changed and altered, whilist the koran is unchanged to the single arabic letter for 1400 years. So things that we see written in them today are not seen as the truth. As for Arab agression, well not all arabs are muslim, infact there is quiet a large number of Christiam arabs and Jews, infact many of thoese in Israli armed forces are such arab militian, opressing their fellow Christian and muslim brothers and sisters. Another interesting thing to look at is the similarities between the Torah, Bible and Koran, only then you can you see that they are one of the same thing, that they all believe ihn the oneness of the Lord and that he sent messengers to the earth....hoped this helpped...

[humming bird]

They are not one and the same thing at all but all have the same ROOTS . The Koran is just a second hand rendition of the other two (remember we are talking about a production over 700 years post the alleged death of Jesus Christ) however the Koran and Islam is a good illustration that if people are silly enough or unempowered enough that you can fool most of those people all the time and get them to perform horrors.I respect Muslim's rights but seriously..to believe the Koran is the inspired word of the 'last prophet' "Mohammed"...get real! Some people will believe anything... still it works for them, suppressed women, meglomania, disfigurement; executions, floggings, genoicides Immams running the roost (like the Rabbis in Israel, behind the scenes) ..no worries!!If ignorence is bliss...they say..well look no further than the expansionist creeds of Islam (Islam means "peace, in case no one could guess) , now that Christianity has started to snap out of it after 2000 years of genoicide and ignorence we have yet another brain dead religion to contend to stay alive..... By the way the tale of Abraham would only indicate a pretty sick mind on 'God's part. I thought so when I was 7 and I still think so 50 years later. The Bible is not an earlier work, it took some serius form 300 odd years after the death of Jesus and was nicely manipulated then. The Koran is like one man's redefinition of the old and the new...and of course he knew it all ot there in the trade routes desert!! God needed him to enlighten the world. (Yaaawwwwwn) Cheers

[queenansarel]

ishmeal was going to be sacraficed to test Abraham to see if he really believed in God (Allah) like he says but the angles stoped Abraham because it was proven we know what we talkin bout