Would You Transgress To Assist An Emergency Vehicle?

[ToraToraTora]

https://www.express.co.uk/life-style/cars/1899561/drivers-fine-2500-moving-ambulance

....don't. This is not new to me but I'm amazed how many people think it's ok to go through a red light or stop in a yellow box to assist and emergency vehicle.

[Peter Pedant]

a bit of misinfomation again

You allowed ( indeed must) obey  a direct order of a policeman ( yeah yeah Wayne Cousens etc) even if it breaks the  law

buut this is doing it yourself, without an order....

They  might have made this clearer

[Peter Pedant]

I think you'll find the councils/courts don't do common sense, unfortunately.

yeah BA

BUT COUNCIL only - argue the toss - they do "proportionality" and here you should ( 'it is disproportionate unless...') say that a fine is too severe. it works...

[ToraToraTora]

AH; "What I did not say, was that I would willingly accept the penalty." - does anyone? You're play semantics again. You have no defence you would have to accept it one way or another, either the fixed pen or the larger one in court.

[ToraToraTora]

AH: "But, to return to TTT's immagination, I would not pay willingly, and I would not be happy about it, but the law is the law, and I abide by it." - gawd elp us you're employing some semantic BS there me old china. If you jumped off a cliff you'd be expecting to hit the bottom, you did it willingly knowing the outcome.

[andy-hughes]

TTT - // AH; "What I did not say, was that I would willingly accept the penalty." - does anyone? You're play semantics again. You have no defence you would have to accept it one way or another, either the fixed pen or the larger one in court. //

I am not playing semantics at all I suspect you are looking for an argument by creating a false scenario - again.

Just because I accept a penalty does not mean that I am happy about it, and that is what you said in your reply.

You are misinterpreting what I have written, which is crystal clear, because you want an arguement.

[andy-hughes]

TTT - // AH: "But, to return to TTT's immagination, I would not pay willingly, and I would not be happy about it, but the law is the law, and I abide by it." - gawd elp us you're employing some semantic BS there me old china. If you jumped off a cliff you'd be expecting to hit the bottom, you did it willingly knowing the outcome. //

As usual, you offer a comparison which does not fit.

If I cross a traffic light line, I may be prosecuted for it, but I may not, the outcome is not clear at the time.

If I jump off a cliff, I will hit the ground, the outcome is absolutely clear and guarenteed.

Your comparison is utterly meaningless.

By all means contest what I am saying, but try and stick to what I am saying, not what you want to make up, and then criticise me for.

[Hymie]

I would not commit a driving offence to make way for an emergency vehicle; if the powers that be want that changed, they can easily lobby MPs to make that happen.

 

Many years ago, the police convinced MPs to pass a law requiring that displayed vehicle tax discs had to be placed on the left hand edge of the front windscreen (and not just anywhere).

[Hymie]

TTT, stopping in a yellow (junction) box is not a driving infringement; it is entering the box (when not permitted to do so) that is a driving infringement.

If a pedestrian steps out in front of you, while driving through a junction box, you should stop and give way to the pedestrian.

[ToraToraTora]

hymie: "TTT, stopping in a yellow (junction) box is not a driving infringement; " - yes it is, the rule says that you should not enter the box unless your exit is clear unless you are only prevented turning right by oncoming traffic. Thus if you stop in the box not waiting for oncoming traffic your exit was not clear and you should not have entered.

[Peter Pedant]

give 'em hell Hymie

[Hymie]

TTT, if you enter a junction box (intending to proceed straight ahead) when your exit is clear and another car then cuts across your path blocking your exit, forcing you to stop in the junction box – you will not have committed a driving offence.

 

If you decide not to stop, and crash into the car that cut across your path (blocking your exit), you will very likely be judged at fault in the crash.

[Hymie]

I would advise all ABers to stop in a junction box if a pedestrian walks out in front of you – if you are a pedestrian walking across a junction box without looking out for traffic, you better hope TTT is not driving close by.

[ToraToraTora]

hymie: "TTT, if you enter a junction box (intending to proceed straight ahead) when your exit is clear and another car then cuts across your path blocking your exit, forcing you to stop in the junction box – you will not have committed a driving offence." - oh yes you will, happens all the time at the "money box"

https://www.mirror.co.uk/news/uk-news/notorious-money-box-junction-raked-9036632

The are to lanes, if you are in the left and your exit is clear then you can enter the box. If the guy on the righ quickly overtakes you and takes your place in the left just ahead of the box you are stranded in the box. Busted. It's one of the main gripes.

[Hymie]

A photo of a vehicle stopped in a junction box is no proof whatsoever that the vehicle did not have a clear exit route at the time of entering the box –I’m surprised that any court would accept this as proof.

 

If there is a traffic light at the exit of the junction box and it was green at the time of entering (and your exit was clear) then it turns red as you pass through the junction box, stopping within the junction box (at the red light), you will not have contravened the rules for entering the junction box.

 

Most people do not know the rules allowing them to enter a junction box.

 

If there is a vehicle in front of you as you approach a junction box (both travelling straight ahead), you cannot enter the junction box (following this vehicle) until the vehicle has cleared the junction box with enough space to allow you to fully exit the junction box.

Therefore traffic flowing through a junction box should be spaced between vehicles at the length of the junction box plus one vehicle length.

[ToraToraTora]

10:50 Sorry me old china but you are fundementally misunderstanding the yellow box rules. You are correct that you should not enter unless your exit is clear but the way that is tested is if you have to come to a stop then you should not have entered unless, as in the aforementioned post you are only prevented turning right by oncoming traffic.

Perhaps retro can verify here.

[Hymie]

There are many box junctions placed at T junctions - in such a situation if you are travelling straight ahead (and your exit is clear as you enter the junction box) then a vehicle exits from the T junction in front of you (now travelling in the same direction ahead of you), clearing the box junction but preventing you from exiting the junction box – you will not have contravened the rules (despite being stopped in the junction box), as you had obeyed the rules for entering the junction box.

[ToraToraTora]

"If there is a traffic light at the exit of the junction box" - there never is, that would defeat the object. The traffic light is always on the entrance, there may be repeaters ahead but the main light and solid stop line is always before the yellow box.

[ToraToraTora]

11:10 wrong again, rule 174

https://www.highwaycodeuk.co.uk/road-junctions.html

It may seem unfair but if your wheels stop rotating in the box except for the turning right exemption then you are nicked me old china.

You really do have a flawed understanding.

[Hymie]

There is nothing in rule 174 that contradicts what I have said.

 

In all the scenarios I have given that resulted in a vehicle stopping in a junction box; at the time of entering, the vehicle could crossover without stopping (obeying the rules for entering a junction box).

[ToraToraTora]

hymie: "A photo of a vehicle stopped in a junction box is no proof whatsoever that the vehicle did not have a clear exit route at the time of entering the box –I’m surprised that any court would accept this as proof." - that's why there are 2 pictures taken 1 second apart, if the car is in the same place in both, you are nicked.