I'm sure we've reached the end of an unwinable argument, but, in closing... I percieve that your an intelligent person so I ask... Since you don't see any reduction in a person's value due to the circumstances of their conception, isn't it arbitrary and capricious to devalue that same person before they're born based on the circumstances of conception? You know, here in the U.S., as I've stated we've experienced nearly 40 million baby deaths due to abortion since Roe v. Wade, some 25 or 30 years ago. As I also said, that's nearly an entire generation. I think it's entirely possible.... no, probable, that out of that number a child could have arisen to find a cure for cancer or heart disease or AIDS... but, based on the inconvenience (over which, the mother had total control, by the way) of that child's life he or she was destroyed. Stephen Hawkings, one of the greatest minds of the past 100 years if not more, is and has been dying of Lou Gehrig's disease (ALS disease amyotrophic lateral sclerosis) for his entire life. Most doctors believe it is herdeitary in nature and due to a genetic "flaw", if you will. Had his parents known of it's presence prior to his birth should he have been aborted due to the perceived lack of quality in his life? I think not! But... more importantly, is his life any more important than the average baby's?... again, I think not! So, my worthy, but misguided, Irish adversary... isn't your reasoning flawed? To consider that the life of a baby is expendable due simply because of the inconvenience placed on the mother (and, in the end, isn't that the overwhelming consideration in almost all cases?) or, in rare cases, the circumstances of one's conception isn't logical... forget the moral implications (which I can't). How many Hawkings, Einsteins, Jonas Salk's, et al have we lost? I dispair to consider the question on that basis alone...