Islam, Christianity Or Atheism?

[Khandro]

With the UK heading towards being a Muslim country by 2050 (probably before). Which of these alternatives would you prefer to live under?
The choice though, as things stand, appears to be hypothetical, I'm afraid.

[Khandro]

"I've always agreed with this thesis. A society without religion is unable to survive. Laicism, rationalism and the Enlightenment, which is based on the abandonment of faith, have no future."
[ i ] Michel Houellebecq [ i ]

naomi; I have to agree, & until you can demonstrate otherwise, I will continue to do so.
The problem for Europe (as we think we know it) is that the religion is going to be Islam

[naomi24]

//"I've always agreed with this thesis. A society without religion is unable to survive. Laicism, rationalism and the Enlightenment, which is based on the abandonment of faith, have no future." //

Why?

[Khandro]

Why? Because it is a flawed concept - an ideological dream, whenever attempted it has failed - & you can not give a single, working example out of the thousands of societies which have existed & exist.
What more can I say?

[naomi24]

Khandro, //whenever attempted it has failed //

When and where has it been attempted?

[pixie374]

Khandro, //Those of you saying you wish to live in an atheistic society, please show me one where it has been tried & it worked.//

Why don't you show us a religious society that has done this first? And what do you mean by "worked"?

The world is far from perfect, having been overrun with religion. What makes you think a lack of religion would have made things any worse? How could it?

[Khandro]

pixie; Neither I nor Houellebecq have mentioned a "religious society".
Where do you get that from?

[pixie374]

Your posts, khandro.
If the thousands and thousands of successful societies you refer to, are not atheist... then they are religious. No?

[pixie374]

In any case, please give a couple of examples of your thousands and thousands of societies which "are" working.

[naomi24]

Khandro, /Neither I nor Houellebecq have mentioned a "religious society".
Where do you get that from? //

What on earth are you talking about?

[pixie374]

A list of the "most atheist" countries, if that helps...
http://worldpopulationreview.com/countries/most-atheist-countries/

[pixie374]

Interestingly, most of them also come top in countries with "best quality of life"
Canada. #1 in Quality of Life Rankings. ...
Sweden. #2 in Quality of Life Rankings. ...
Denmark. #3 in Quality of Life Rankings. ...
Norway. #4 in Quality of Life Rankings. ...
Switzerland. #5 in Quality of Life Rankings. ...
Finland. #6 in Quality of Life Rankings. ...
Australia. #7 in Quality of Life Rankings. ...
Netherlands. #8 in Quality of Life Rankings

[pixie374]

Last question, khandro, having been googling...
The top 15 most "irreligious" countries, include Norway, Finland, Iceland, Denmark and Sweden. Ironically, those five are also the top five in sexual equality. Co-incidence, do you think?

[Khandro]

Pixie; From your own link,
"Approximately 40-49% of China’s population says that they’re atheists. This is the highest population of atheists in the world."

This is the HIGHEST in the world & a long way from being an 'atheist country' & this is from a country whose government decrees atheism & many surveyed probably said so rather than appear to be in opposition to their government.

China also has a large, burgeoning Christian community;
https://www.cfr.org/backgrounder/christianity-china

[pixie374]

I didn't say there were 'atheist' countries, khandro. You already told us there aren't. But the higher the proportion of atheists, the happier a country is, with a better standard of living and more equality.... you are convincing me more and more that giving up religions is the way forward.

[Khandro]

pixie; //But the higher the proportion of atheists, the happier a country is, with a better standard of living..//

From that statement it's clear that you know little about China.

[pixie374]

It wasn't just about China. Have a look yourself... the top least religious countries... and compare them with the best standards of living, the most equality and the happiest people.
I hadn't realised how linked it was before you posted this.

[naomi24]

Khandro, China is hardly a free, democratic, country. Try imagining a western country devoid of religion. Why wouldn’t that work?

[andy-hughes]

I am constantly intrigued as to why two individuals who post on threads involving Islam, constantly imagine that because they have read about the faith, it gives them the right to patronise anyone who they feel does not measure up to their levels of knowledge, without knowing for sure what anyone else may, or may not know.

Everyone is entitled to express a view, and as I have pointed out before, it's not an intellectual one-upmanship contest, it's an exchange of views and opinions.

I am tired of having my posts belittled and sneered at by those who imagine that their 'education' makes their view the only correct one, and anyone who does not see the world as they do is to be pitied and mocked.

I don't mind anyone not agreeing with me, but I will not be patronised and scoffed at by pseudo-experts who think that a little reading gives them bragging rights about a subject.

Examples -

Khandro - // Better give up naomi, the prejudiced have no problems forming their opinions as they feel no need to understand the facts.

Khandro - // If you are unaware of what is happening & if you don't listen to the few people* (more & more though now) or read books on the subject, then I can't help you.

Naomi - // Ummmm, I’m OTT because I get tired of explaining the same things over and over again.

Naomi - // AH, it isn’t with the Jews remit to ‘take over’ and as someone who isn’t aware of that it’s no surprise that you regard the rest as irrelevant.

Do you two ever think just how arrogant you sound with your patient sighing and despairing that everyone else doesn't think like you?

News flash - we don't have to!

In conclusion, I am going to avoid direct interaction with Naomi and Kandro on the subject of Islam - anyone else who wants to be belittled by their pompous lecturing is welcome to do so, but I have more respect for myself than to argue with people who do not respect others in a debate, or understand that education does not give you superiority - especially when it is unproven beyond constant references from the two 'teachers' busy despairing that no-one else on here is perceived as their intellectual equal.

[naomi24]

// I am going to avoid direct interaction with Naomi ...on the subject of Islam //

Hurrah!! But that doesn't mean I will avoid you. ;o)

[andy-hughes]

Naomi - // Hurrah!! But that doesn't mean I will avoid you. ;o) //

Have at it.