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Who Was Jesus?
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In response to Nailit’s observation that “It’s gone a bit quiet on here”, in an effort to generate a little discussion that might be of interest to all, ASSUMING THE MAN JESUS EXISTED, who do you think he might have been – and what are your reasons for reaching your conclusion?
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Naomi, is the front page of the Daily Star anything to do with you?
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Tilly, is this what you’re referring to?
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The legends surrounding Jesus could well have come from other sources – Apollonius is not unknown and another is the god Mithras. That’s the problem with trying to pin it all down and make some rational sense of it. Elements of story could have been hijacked from elsewhere, and I think some were.
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The legends surrounding Jesus could well have come from other sources – Apollonius is not unknown and another is the god Mithras. That’s the problem with trying to pin it all down and make some rational sense of it. Elements of story could have been hijacked from elsewhere, and I think some were.
benhilton
//In response to nailit , the uniqueness of Jesus is the following that he has built//
The Hare Krishna movement was only founded in 1966 and yet today has millions of followers, should we conclude that Lord Krishna is also unique and once walked this earth as an incarnation of God?
The uniqueness of the spread of Christianity has more to do with Constantine highjacking it in the 4th century.
//The early church fathers risked death to keep his message alive . Many of them were martyred as were many others over the centuries//
People of all faiths get martyed and are willing to die for their faith, doesn't make them true.
//In response to nailit , the uniqueness of Jesus is the following that he has built//
The Hare Krishna movement was only founded in 1966 and yet today has millions of followers, should we conclude that Lord Krishna is also unique and once walked this earth as an incarnation of God?
The uniqueness of the spread of Christianity has more to do with Constantine highjacking it in the 4th century.
//The early church fathers risked death to keep his message alive . Many of them were martyred as were many others over the centuries//
People of all faiths get martyed and are willing to die for their faith, doesn't make them true.
So why would Constantine " hijack " - as you put it - this particular movement if it was fictitious ?
He went to the trouble of calling all the bishops together at Nicea to get their fiction straight ?
I think Naomi and yourself are over-reliant on the "fictitious" aspect .
The fictitious Luke opens his fictitious gospel with a reference to a census that turns out to be a historical fact backed up by other historians of the time such as Josephus (he's writing after Luke wrote ) . The dating is about a decade out . There are explanations for that . Not everyone will agree with them . The best explanation I have seen was on a youtube clip ( posted by a Christian group , so biased ) in which an academic of the rank of Doctor states that the census bearing Quirinius name was the final fully collated and compiled census dated at the time that it was presented to Rome . He then goes on to say that it may have taken over a decade to compile and may have started before Quirinius was governor . This is entirely plausible , remember everything is being written by hand , the printing press is centuries away .
Luke isn't the only person to go to the holy land in pursuit of this fiction . You mentioned Constantine - what do you make of the pilgrimage of his mother St. Helena ? Was she fooled by the locals who knew she had piles of Constantine's money to spend ?
Lastly the church continued to grow long after Rome fell .
He went to the trouble of calling all the bishops together at Nicea to get their fiction straight ?
I think Naomi and yourself are over-reliant on the "fictitious" aspect .
The fictitious Luke opens his fictitious gospel with a reference to a census that turns out to be a historical fact backed up by other historians of the time such as Josephus (he's writing after Luke wrote ) . The dating is about a decade out . There are explanations for that . Not everyone will agree with them . The best explanation I have seen was on a youtube clip ( posted by a Christian group , so biased ) in which an academic of the rank of Doctor states that the census bearing Quirinius name was the final fully collated and compiled census dated at the time that it was presented to Rome . He then goes on to say that it may have taken over a decade to compile and may have started before Quirinius was governor . This is entirely plausible , remember everything is being written by hand , the printing press is centuries away .
Luke isn't the only person to go to the holy land in pursuit of this fiction . You mentioned Constantine - what do you make of the pilgrimage of his mother St. Helena ? Was she fooled by the locals who knew she had piles of Constantine's money to spend ?
Lastly the church continued to grow long after Rome fell .
Israel created in 1948 - prophecied - fulfilled.
Attacked by armies but victorious - prophecied - fulfilled.
Promise of a rich land blessed with wealth - prophecied - fulfilled.
Attacked by a confederacy in the north - prophecied - ABOUT TO BE FULFILLED.
Jews remaining a nation without a land, the word, "Jew," becoming a byword - prophecied - fulfilled.
And the list goes on, but not for those who have come to the conclusion before examining ALL of the evidence.
Anyway, I am now fed up with the sniping on AB and I think I need a break from it.
The snipers win the trophy. Enjoy.
Attacked by armies but victorious - prophecied - fulfilled.
Promise of a rich land blessed with wealth - prophecied - fulfilled.
Attacked by a confederacy in the north - prophecied - ABOUT TO BE FULFILLED.
Jews remaining a nation without a land, the word, "Jew," becoming a byword - prophecied - fulfilled.
And the list goes on, but not for those who have come to the conclusion before examining ALL of the evidence.
Anyway, I am now fed up with the sniping on AB and I think I need a break from it.
The snipers win the trophy. Enjoy.
benhilton, //He then goes on to say that it may have taken over a decade to compile and may have started before Quirinius was governor .//
Your posts are full of ‘may haves’. Can you not see that?
Nailit, I can genuinely empathise with the Christians here battling against verifiable history and rationality in order to fight their God’s corner. As a Christian I remember bristling at the slightest criticism of Christianity – being so easily reduced to floods of tears at the thought of the horrors that Jesus had suffered – and having happened upon the works of a certain Mr Von Daniken, I vividly recall being utterly incensed by his criticism of the bible – so much so that, determined to prove him wrong, I re-read his book with the bible open at my side and I checked and double-checked each and every reference - only to discover that, in all honesty, he was right and I was wrong. The God of the bible wasn’t the almighty creator God – and by extension Jesus must have been someone else. What more can I say?
Your posts are full of ‘may haves’. Can you not see that?
Nailit, I can genuinely empathise with the Christians here battling against verifiable history and rationality in order to fight their God’s corner. As a Christian I remember bristling at the slightest criticism of Christianity – being so easily reduced to floods of tears at the thought of the horrors that Jesus had suffered – and having happened upon the works of a certain Mr Von Daniken, I vividly recall being utterly incensed by his criticism of the bible – so much so that, determined to prove him wrong, I re-read his book with the bible open at my side and I checked and double-checked each and every reference - only to discover that, in all honesty, he was right and I was wrong. The God of the bible wasn’t the almighty creator God – and by extension Jesus must have been someone else. What more can I say?
//Israel created in 1948 - prophecied - fulfilled//
I'll just start with the first of your assertations before moving on to the rest...just to keep it simple.
Where in the Bible is it prophecied that Israel will be a state in 1948? And does it mention the Belfour Decloration, America, world war one or world war two or anything leading up to it?
I'll just start with the first of your assertations before moving on to the rest...just to keep it simple.
Where in the Bible is it prophecied that Israel will be a state in 1948? And does it mention the Belfour Decloration, America, world war one or world war two or anything leading up to it?
naomi, I was never a von Daniken fan myself but the sentiments are the same. I started to read literature that was contrary to what I was taught and it made me question, research and study my 'faith'.
I started to ask questions of my elders (bearing in mind that I was a young teenage believer at the time)
Years later, I wished that I had spent ALL my life been as questionative. Some people are so scared of asking questions.
I started to ask questions of my elders (bearing in mind that I was a young teenage believer at the time)
Years later, I wished that I had spent ALL my life been as questionative. Some people are so scared of asking questions.
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