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Ancient Alien Astronaughts
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After reading Theland's thread below (who or what created the universe) and the debate that developed between Naomi and others regarding ancient aliens visiting Earth, I thought that it may deserve a thread of its own.
I read von Daniken's books as a teenager and later found out that much of what he wrote was fabricated. *BUT* there have been other authors who have had the same ideas without Danikens fancies.
Myself, I'm open minded about it all, but still a fascinating subject to discuss.
I read von Daniken's books as a teenager and later found out that much of what he wrote was fabricated. *BUT* there have been other authors who have had the same ideas without Danikens fancies.
Myself, I'm open minded about it all, but still a fascinating subject to discuss.
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I've watched a few YouTube videos of Sean Carroll, the physicist who's cited in Jim's link. I certainly recommend them - he's a marvellous communicator with a very lucid style. (Think the first one I watched was something about the "arrow of time".)
That's not saying that I actually understand what all his explanations. VE's limitations rather than Carroll's.
That's not saying that I actually understand what all his explanations. VE's limitations rather than Carroll's.
"Do you think there is 'through the looking glass' somewhere another different periodic table and a place where 1 + 1 doesn't equal 2?"
I can happily accept the first idea, because the properties of elements follow from constants and physical laws that might well end up being somewhat flexible. I think there's a lot more of the idea that the universe is "fine-tuned", eg something about how if the proton were another 0.000000000000000000000001 grammes heavier (give a take a zero or two) then maybe nothing like life could possibly exist, but who's to say that life is "meant" to exist in the first place? So yeah, if there were the possibility of a "multiverse" of some type then chemistry could be a lot different there.
Not 1+1=2 though. That's a definition of a relationship between two quantities that is inviolable. The only things that can change there are the names you give to the things.
I can happily accept the first idea, because the properties of elements follow from constants and physical laws that might well end up being somewhat flexible. I think there's a lot more of the idea that the universe is "fine-tuned", eg something about how if the proton were another 0.000000000000000000000001 grammes heavier (give a take a zero or two) then maybe nothing like life could possibly exist, but who's to say that life is "meant" to exist in the first place? So yeah, if there were the possibility of a "multiverse" of some type then chemistry could be a lot different there.
Not 1+1=2 though. That's a definition of a relationship between two quantities that is inviolable. The only things that can change there are the names you give to the things.
"...eg something about how if the proton were another 0.000000000000000000000001 grammes heavier (give a take a zero or two) then maybe nothing like life could possibly exist..."
I should just make sure that this isn't too misleading. The proton only weighs about that much to start with, so doubling its weight would make a big difference. Still, the proton and neutron have about the same mass, but the neutron is slightly heavier by less than 1%, but it's a huge difference -- because neutrons can then decay to protons but not the other way round (heavier things turn in to lighter things, if left alone long enough). If protons decays more often then nothing more exotic than hydrogen would last long, and even that would fade away after a while, and no life could possibly form without stable complex elements. So it's still a highly sensitive difference.
Also I'm abusing the meaning of the word "weigh" throughout, but I honestly don't care.
I should just make sure that this isn't too misleading. The proton only weighs about that much to start with, so doubling its weight would make a big difference. Still, the proton and neutron have about the same mass, but the neutron is slightly heavier by less than 1%, but it's a huge difference -- because neutrons can then decay to protons but not the other way round (heavier things turn in to lighter things, if left alone long enough). If protons decays more often then nothing more exotic than hydrogen would last long, and even that would fade away after a while, and no life could possibly form without stable complex elements. So it's still a highly sensitive difference.
Also I'm abusing the meaning of the word "weigh" throughout, but I honestly don't care.
Well, the mass of the proton is what it is. I don't understand why that datum( (not a constant, presumably?) is necessary to life, but were it otherwise we wouldn't be discussing it on AB, drinking Bacardi, kicking the cats and watching Sky News (in my case), or doing whatever others do at this time of night). From which I conclude that the probability of that mass being precisely what is 1. Then again I was as bad at maths as I was at science.
I acknowledge, though, that the anthropic principle is more subtle than the specific example Jim gave.
I acknowledge, though, that the anthropic principle is more subtle than the specific example Jim gave.
//The universe contains all that was created including the fabled aliens, so they would be only a part of creation, not the authors of it. //
This isn't about creation. The question is quite simply could people from other planets have come to earth in the distant past and been mistaken for gods? Are they the source of legends that emanate from the four corners of the globe and form the basis of multiple religions?
We don’t discuss this fascinating subject very often so it would be good to keep this rare event on track.
This isn't about creation. The question is quite simply could people from other planets have come to earth in the distant past and been mistaken for gods? Are they the source of legends that emanate from the four corners of the globe and form the basis of multiple religions?
We don’t discuss this fascinating subject very often so it would be good to keep this rare event on track.
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