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Is This Another Sign Fulfilling Bible Prophecy?
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Among the significant events that Jesus said would mark “the time of the end" was that false prophets would arise (Matthew 24:11, 12) Jesus associated the increased lawlessness and the cooling off of love with the influence of false prophets—those who falsely claim to speak for God.
Among the significant events that Jesus said would mark “the time of the end" was that false prophets would arise (Matthew 24:11, 12) Jesus associated the increased lawlessness and the cooling off of love with the influence of false prophets—those who falsely claim to speak for God.
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Idiosyncrasy - “...We have had a beginning and we are now running its course to the end...”
Please allow me to ask you a question - How many times has the “End Of The World” been predicted by religious cretins and how many times has it been proven wrong by each sunrise? A hundred? A thousand? Ten thousand? A hundred thousand? More?
It's really quite pathetic and sad. You and people like you do enjoy harping on about the 'end of days'. Your religion speaks about such times as if they are something to be welcomed and longed for. The desire for the death and the destruction of all mankind is relished in Christianity, Islam and Judaism.
Belief in such doctrines is a sick and twisted belief. Religion wishes to visit Armageddon on the entire plant. Ideologically, what's the difference between someone who longs for the 'final judgement' and a suicide bomber? I can't see any. Maybe you can explain it to me.
Please allow me to ask you a question - How many times has the “End Of The World” been predicted by religious cretins and how many times has it been proven wrong by each sunrise? A hundred? A thousand? Ten thousand? A hundred thousand? More?
It's really quite pathetic and sad. You and people like you do enjoy harping on about the 'end of days'. Your religion speaks about such times as if they are something to be welcomed and longed for. The desire for the death and the destruction of all mankind is relished in Christianity, Islam and Judaism.
Belief in such doctrines is a sick and twisted belief. Religion wishes to visit Armageddon on the entire plant. Ideologically, what's the difference between someone who longs for the 'final judgement' and a suicide bomber? I can't see any. Maybe you can explain it to me.
birdie@ keyplus //You and people like you do enjoy harping on about the 'end of days'. Your religion speaks about such times as if they are something to be welcomed and longed for. The desire for the death and the destruction of all mankind is relished in Christianity, Islam and Judaism. //
Exactly. That is why we must make every effort to expose the reality of the Abrahamic Faiths. The future of humanity depends on everyone moving beyond these archaic barbaric fascist philosophies.
The most powerful tool we have against these religions is their Holy Books. In them in black and white are stories of the worst of human prejudices exalted as the guidance of a deity. Religion really is the saddest case ever seen of "The Emperor's New Clothes".
Exactly. That is why we must make every effort to expose the reality of the Abrahamic Faiths. The future of humanity depends on everyone moving beyond these archaic barbaric fascist philosophies.
The most powerful tool we have against these religions is their Holy Books. In them in black and white are stories of the worst of human prejudices exalted as the guidance of a deity. Religion really is the saddest case ever seen of "The Emperor's New Clothes".
Birdie//Please allow me to ask you a question - How many times has the “End Of The World” been predicted by religious cretins and how many times has it been proven wrong by each sunrise? A hundred? A thousand? Ten thousand? A hundred thousand? //
I would agree with you! Many have predicted the end of the world and it has not come about. Why?
Because they have absolutely no idea, just as you and I have no idea. But it will come one day.
Even the Bible states that - "But about that day or hour no one knows, not even the angels in heaven, nor the Son, but only the Father. As it was in the days of Noah, so it will be at the coming of the Son of Man. For in the days before the flood, people were eating and drinking, marrying and giving in marriage, up to the day Noah entered the ark; and they knew nothing about what would happen until the flood came and took them all away. That is how it will be at the coming of the Son of Man." - Matthew 24 v 36 - 39
No doubt, those at the time of Noah laughed and ridiculed and repeatedly said, "When is that day coming? Never. Ha Ha!!"
Same too with the Jews in Jerusalem, especially when the Roman armies withdrew. They no doubt laughed and said, "Ha ha we are still here!"
But come it did with sad consequences.
I would agree with you! Many have predicted the end of the world and it has not come about. Why?
Because they have absolutely no idea, just as you and I have no idea. But it will come one day.
Even the Bible states that - "But about that day or hour no one knows, not even the angels in heaven, nor the Son, but only the Father. As it was in the days of Noah, so it will be at the coming of the Son of Man. For in the days before the flood, people were eating and drinking, marrying and giving in marriage, up to the day Noah entered the ark; and they knew nothing about what would happen until the flood came and took them all away. That is how it will be at the coming of the Son of Man." - Matthew 24 v 36 - 39
No doubt, those at the time of Noah laughed and ridiculed and repeatedly said, "When is that day coming? Never. Ha Ha!!"
Same too with the Jews in Jerusalem, especially when the Roman armies withdrew. They no doubt laughed and said, "Ha ha we are still here!"
But come it did with sad consequences.
To continue...
Take for example your own death. You know it is inevitable. It is going to come one day, you don't know when but you know its coming. Do you ignore that the day is ever going to come about? Do you?
No doubt if you are a wise and sensible person you make provision for your loved ones just in case it comes earlier than you expect.
Or do you say, "blow it. Why it isn't going to happen so why should I make any provisions for the future. I am not going to grow old so why should I ensure I have a good pension etc. etc. "
I am almost 100% sure you will take the first option!!
Take for example your own death. You know it is inevitable. It is going to come one day, you don't know when but you know its coming. Do you ignore that the day is ever going to come about? Do you?
No doubt if you are a wise and sensible person you make provision for your loved ones just in case it comes earlier than you expect.
Or do you say, "blow it. Why it isn't going to happen so why should I make any provisions for the future. I am not going to grow old so why should I ensure I have a good pension etc. etc. "
I am almost 100% sure you will take the first option!!
//No doubt, those at the time of Noah laughed and ridiculed and repeatedly said, "When is that day coming? Never. Ha Ha!!" //
I must be missing something here. The infallible God realised he'd made a mistake, so destroyed practically everyone on earth - but nothing changed.
You're afraid of death - nothing more - so in your mind Jesus is the man from the Pru! Sadly, I think he's sold you a duff policy.
I must be missing something here. The infallible God realised he'd made a mistake, so destroyed practically everyone on earth - but nothing changed.
You're afraid of death - nothing more - so in your mind Jesus is the man from the Pru! Sadly, I think he's sold you a duff policy.
Idiosyncracy // As it was in the days of Noah, so it will be at the coming of the Son of Man. //
In Noah's days (he lived for 900 years didn't he) he built a boat of a size that modern engineers calculate would break if made from wood. Moreover it wasn't big enough to fit two over every creature on Earth.
It rained for forty day until the water was high enough to cover every bit of land on Earth. Then the water went down though nobody has ever explained where all that water came from nor where it went afterwards.
The ark had a single window. Everything inside would have suffocated from inadequate ventilation. It would have been horrendous as there were not even enough people on board to shovel out the amount of manure so many animals would create.
Yes the coming of Jesus will be exactly like the time of Noah, a completely ridiculous fiction, just as was the case with the first coming of Jesus.
In Noah's days (he lived for 900 years didn't he) he built a boat of a size that modern engineers calculate would break if made from wood. Moreover it wasn't big enough to fit two over every creature on Earth.
It rained for forty day until the water was high enough to cover every bit of land on Earth. Then the water went down though nobody has ever explained where all that water came from nor where it went afterwards.
The ark had a single window. Everything inside would have suffocated from inadequate ventilation. It would have been horrendous as there were not even enough people on board to shovel out the amount of manure so many animals would create.
Yes the coming of Jesus will be exactly like the time of Noah, a completely ridiculous fiction, just as was the case with the first coming of Jesus.
Idiosyncrasy - “... [birdie] But it [the end of the world] will come one day...”
First, let's clear up what you specifically mean by the phrase “the end of the world”. Are you speaking about:
a) the extinction of the species Homo sapiens and the continuation of other biological life on Earth;
b) the extinction of all biological life on Earth;
c) the obliteration of this physical planet due to some cataclysmic (from our point of view) cosmic event.
I would genuinely like to know because I am intrigued by the phrase "the end of the world". If you mean (a) then the phrase seems extremely narcissistic since the world and all the other creatures that dwell upon it will continue quite happily without us humans being around. I would suggest that if (a) were to happen, then this does not constitute "the end of the world" in any meaningful sense. If you mean (b) then I would again argue that this doesn't mean "the end of the world" either since the planet would still exist and would continue to orbit the sun for many billions of years. I can only assume therefore that you mean (c). Please clarify this matter so that we both know what one another are actually speaking about.
You continue - "... Take for example your own death. You know it is inevitable. It is going to come one day, you don't know when but you know its coming. Do you ignore that the day is ever going to come about [*1]? Do you [*2]? No doubt if you are a wise and sensible person you make provision for your loved ones just in case it comes earlier than you expect. Or do you say, "blow it. Why it isn't going to happen so why should I make any provisions for the future [*3]. I am not going to grow old so why should I ensure I have a good pension etc. etc [*4]..."
Your above questions have nothing whatsoever to do with the original question nor with my response of 1st Jan @ 03:47. They are a rather transparent attempt to derail the current argument and to not address a single one of my statements nor answer any of my questions. However, in the spirit of goodwill I shall answer your questions briefly:
*1) No.
*2) No. I clarified this in point *1.
*3) No. Obviously, I am going to die at some indeterminate point in the future.
*4) No. See point *3.
Now that's sorted, please allow me to ask my question to you again:
Q. Religion wishes to visit Armageddon on the entire plant. Ideologically, what's the difference between someone who longs for the 'final judgement' and a suicide bomber? I can't see any. Maybe you can explain it to me.
First, let's clear up what you specifically mean by the phrase “the end of the world”. Are you speaking about:
a) the extinction of the species Homo sapiens and the continuation of other biological life on Earth;
b) the extinction of all biological life on Earth;
c) the obliteration of this physical planet due to some cataclysmic (from our point of view) cosmic event.
I would genuinely like to know because I am intrigued by the phrase "the end of the world". If you mean (a) then the phrase seems extremely narcissistic since the world and all the other creatures that dwell upon it will continue quite happily without us humans being around. I would suggest that if (a) were to happen, then this does not constitute "the end of the world" in any meaningful sense. If you mean (b) then I would again argue that this doesn't mean "the end of the world" either since the planet would still exist and would continue to orbit the sun for many billions of years. I can only assume therefore that you mean (c). Please clarify this matter so that we both know what one another are actually speaking about.
You continue - "... Take for example your own death. You know it is inevitable. It is going to come one day, you don't know when but you know its coming. Do you ignore that the day is ever going to come about [*1]? Do you [*2]? No doubt if you are a wise and sensible person you make provision for your loved ones just in case it comes earlier than you expect. Or do you say, "blow it. Why it isn't going to happen so why should I make any provisions for the future [*3]. I am not going to grow old so why should I ensure I have a good pension etc. etc [*4]..."
Your above questions have nothing whatsoever to do with the original question nor with my response of 1st Jan @ 03:47. They are a rather transparent attempt to derail the current argument and to not address a single one of my statements nor answer any of my questions. However, in the spirit of goodwill I shall answer your questions briefly:
*1) No.
*2) No. I clarified this in point *1.
*3) No. Obviously, I am going to die at some indeterminate point in the future.
*4) No. See point *3.
Now that's sorted, please allow me to ask my question to you again:
Q. Religion wishes to visit Armageddon on the entire plant. Ideologically, what's the difference between someone who longs for the 'final judgement' and a suicide bomber? I can't see any. Maybe you can explain it to me.
Naomi//You're afraid of death //
No. Why should I be? Death is only a deep sleep like state - going to bed to sleep and not waking up. What is to be feared in that?
//you're not making provision for your loved ones//
My loved ones are well taken care of financially, thank you.
PP//yeah but we only know afterwards wouldnt we//
Only those that survive. Those that don't won't know anything.
Beso@ With regards to the ark we are going a little off topic. But Genesis 6 v 16 reads "Make a roof for it, leaving below the roof an opening one cubit high all around. Put a door in the side of the ark and make lower, middle and upper decks."
Okay, so the original cubit length is uncertain, but it was most likely about 19.8–20.6 in. But this was to go all around the ark below the roof.
Also, the ark was not make to propell itself through the waters. The ark’s length was six times its width and ten times its height. Many modern ships have similar proportions, although for them the length-to-breadth ratio is chosen with regard to the power required to move them through the water. These proportions contributed to its stability therefore it was unlikely to capsize.
Birdie@ The End of the World! I am not talking about the End of the World. It is these so-called prophets that do that. I speak of the end of the system as we know it on the earth today.That is what the Bible refers to.
Jesus was speaking of the End of the System, not the end of the world. That is the political, religious and commercial system.
The wickedness and the violence, the poverty, the famine, homelessness and unemployment.
The Bible tells us that when God created the earth, he did not create it for nothing, but he created it to be inhabited. That it was to stand forever.
Psalm 104 v 5 -He set the earth on its foundations, so that it should never be moved.
Ecclesiastes 1 v 4 - A generation goes and a generation comes, But the earth remains forever.
Isaiah 45 v 18 - Former of the earth and the Maker of it, He the One who firmly established it, who did not create it simply for nothing, who formed it even to be inhabited.
To answer your question//Religion wishes to visit Armageddon on the entire plant. Ideologically, what's the difference between someone who longs for the 'final judgement' and a suicide bomber? I can't see any. Maybe you can explain it to me. //
When God brings Armageddon it is selective. Only the wicked will be removed. On the other hand a suicide bomber does not care who is killed. His/her main purpose is to kill as many people as it can regardless of whether they are innocent or not.
For those who await the final judgement, these ones are looking forward to a new world system, free from corruption, violence, disease and all the distressing conditions on the earth today.
No. Why should I be? Death is only a deep sleep like state - going to bed to sleep and not waking up. What is to be feared in that?
//you're not making provision for your loved ones//
My loved ones are well taken care of financially, thank you.
PP//yeah but we only know afterwards wouldnt we//
Only those that survive. Those that don't won't know anything.
Beso@ With regards to the ark we are going a little off topic. But Genesis 6 v 16 reads "Make a roof for it, leaving below the roof an opening one cubit high all around. Put a door in the side of the ark and make lower, middle and upper decks."
Okay, so the original cubit length is uncertain, but it was most likely about 19.8–20.6 in. But this was to go all around the ark below the roof.
Also, the ark was not make to propell itself through the waters. The ark’s length was six times its width and ten times its height. Many modern ships have similar proportions, although for them the length-to-breadth ratio is chosen with regard to the power required to move them through the water. These proportions contributed to its stability therefore it was unlikely to capsize.
Birdie@ The End of the World! I am not talking about the End of the World. It is these so-called prophets that do that. I speak of the end of the system as we know it on the earth today.That is what the Bible refers to.
Jesus was speaking of the End of the System, not the end of the world. That is the political, religious and commercial system.
The wickedness and the violence, the poverty, the famine, homelessness and unemployment.
The Bible tells us that when God created the earth, he did not create it for nothing, but he created it to be inhabited. That it was to stand forever.
Psalm 104 v 5 -He set the earth on its foundations, so that it should never be moved.
Ecclesiastes 1 v 4 - A generation goes and a generation comes, But the earth remains forever.
Isaiah 45 v 18 - Former of the earth and the Maker of it, He the One who firmly established it, who did not create it simply for nothing, who formed it even to be inhabited.
To answer your question//Religion wishes to visit Armageddon on the entire plant. Ideologically, what's the difference between someone who longs for the 'final judgement' and a suicide bomber? I can't see any. Maybe you can explain it to me. //
When God brings Armageddon it is selective. Only the wicked will be removed. On the other hand a suicide bomber does not care who is killed. His/her main purpose is to kill as many people as it can regardless of whether they are innocent or not.
For those who await the final judgement, these ones are looking forward to a new world system, free from corruption, violence, disease and all the distressing conditions on the earth today.
@ideosyncrasy
"For those who await the final judgement, these ones are looking forward to a new world system, free from corruption, violence, disease and all the distressing conditions on the earth today"
- Which completely ignores all the good things - the lack of violence, the general rude health and all the nice conditions on the earth today. On many of the markers of "social health" - child mortality, crime rates, global human population, the indices are on the rise. It is this persistent dwelling on the negative and ignoring the positive that grates on me the most, and the other - the assumption that all things positive are attributable to "god", and all things negative are attributable to "man". On behalf of humanity, I find that an incredibly arrogant and offensive worldview.
-"When God brings Armageddon it is selective. Only the wicked will be removed. On the other hand a suicide bomber does not care who is killed. His/her main purpose is to kill as many people as it can regardless of whether they are innocent or not."
And it is this assumption that irritates almost as much. Because it would appear that one of the primary requirements of God in their judgement is to belong to a particular religion or to profess/hold a belief in that particular deity. That's not judging the wicked and the good, that's the equivalent of ethnic cleansing, it seems to me.
"For those who await the final judgement, these ones are looking forward to a new world system, free from corruption, violence, disease and all the distressing conditions on the earth today"
- Which completely ignores all the good things - the lack of violence, the general rude health and all the nice conditions on the earth today. On many of the markers of "social health" - child mortality, crime rates, global human population, the indices are on the rise. It is this persistent dwelling on the negative and ignoring the positive that grates on me the most, and the other - the assumption that all things positive are attributable to "god", and all things negative are attributable to "man". On behalf of humanity, I find that an incredibly arrogant and offensive worldview.
-"When God brings Armageddon it is selective. Only the wicked will be removed. On the other hand a suicide bomber does not care who is killed. His/her main purpose is to kill as many people as it can regardless of whether they are innocent or not."
And it is this assumption that irritates almost as much. Because it would appear that one of the primary requirements of God in their judgement is to belong to a particular religion or to profess/hold a belief in that particular deity. That's not judging the wicked and the good, that's the equivalent of ethnic cleansing, it seems to me.
Naomi I would agree. Nothing has changed. But the earth was rid of the wickedness at that time for a time.
The difference between then and the future is the promise that God made to mankind in that he will never allow wickedness to rise up again because unlike the days of Noah, Satan will be destroyed.
The difference between then and the future is the promise that God made to mankind in that he will never allow wickedness to rise up again because unlike the days of Noah, Satan will be destroyed.
@ideosyncrasy
"Naomi I would agree. Nothing has changed. But the earth was rid of the wickedness at that time for a time"
- At the incredibly cheap price of, oh,lets see - the wiping out all life except a chosen representative few!. The idea that any wickedness can be that great that it justifies the extinction of life is absurd.
"Naomi I would agree. Nothing has changed. But the earth was rid of the wickedness at that time for a time"
- At the incredibly cheap price of, oh,lets see - the wiping out all life except a chosen representative few!. The idea that any wickedness can be that great that it justifies the extinction of life is absurd.
Lazygun//Which completely ignores all the good things - the lack of violence, the general rude health and all the nice conditions on the earth today. On many of the markers of "social health" - child mortality, crime rates, global human population, the indices are on the rise.//
Where? All I see and hear is that young children are no longer safe to play in the streets. When I was a child I would go off and play for a day and mother would never worry as she knew I would be home when I was hungry.
Today, my daughter and daughter in law are frightened to let their children out of sight for more than a few minutes without checking up on where they are.
The schools the grandchildren go to are more like fortresses than schools. Passwords have to be given before you are allowed inside to collect the child.
Every day we see and hear of the terrible conditions children and adults are having to endure in certain areas either due to lack of water, food, or war.
True, medical science has made much progress and many diseases can now be treated and people can live longer. But what is the point if people can not afford the medicines that help.
Why so many pleas for funds for humanitarian reasons, animals too are now being brought under the blanket of needing aid.
People are kidnapped and held hostage, mutilated, tortured and killed.
So tell me, where are the good things and where are the nice things?
They are few and far between.
I have travelled to many countries and lived for sometime in 3 different ones. All I have seen is poverty, hunger, homelessness and unemployment. People living in such conditions that in this country would not be tolerated. Countries which are supposed to be civilised yet the majority of homes still have no running water, or proper sewage systems. People have to have 2 or even 3 jobs in order to be able to put bread on the table. Where they go to bed when the sun goes down and get up with the sunrise because they can't afford to pay for the electricity to light their homes.
So don't tell me things are getting better. I have seen the opposite side to the coin!!
Where? All I see and hear is that young children are no longer safe to play in the streets. When I was a child I would go off and play for a day and mother would never worry as she knew I would be home when I was hungry.
Today, my daughter and daughter in law are frightened to let their children out of sight for more than a few minutes without checking up on where they are.
The schools the grandchildren go to are more like fortresses than schools. Passwords have to be given before you are allowed inside to collect the child.
Every day we see and hear of the terrible conditions children and adults are having to endure in certain areas either due to lack of water, food, or war.
True, medical science has made much progress and many diseases can now be treated and people can live longer. But what is the point if people can not afford the medicines that help.
Why so many pleas for funds for humanitarian reasons, animals too are now being brought under the blanket of needing aid.
People are kidnapped and held hostage, mutilated, tortured and killed.
So tell me, where are the good things and where are the nice things?
They are few and far between.
I have travelled to many countries and lived for sometime in 3 different ones. All I have seen is poverty, hunger, homelessness and unemployment. People living in such conditions that in this country would not be tolerated. Countries which are supposed to be civilised yet the majority of homes still have no running water, or proper sewage systems. People have to have 2 or even 3 jobs in order to be able to put bread on the table. Where they go to bed when the sun goes down and get up with the sunrise because they can't afford to pay for the electricity to light their homes.
So don't tell me things are getting better. I have seen the opposite side to the coin!!
idiosyncrasy, //I would agree. Nothing has changed. But the earth was rid of the wickedness at that time for a time.//
So fundamentally a completely pointless exercise. God made a mistake, attempted to remedy it, but failed. So much for the infallible God. And you still believe what other men tell you he is alleged to have said.
So fundamentally a completely pointless exercise. God made a mistake, attempted to remedy it, but failed. So much for the infallible God. And you still believe what other men tell you he is alleged to have said.
@ideosyncrasy If you look for human misery, you will find it. I am not denying that you will find conditions of deprivation around the globe, nor that you will find examples of criminality - but to despair of mankinds lot as a consequence is just asinine.
There are 6.5 billion people in the world, around 70 million in the UK - and if you are someone living in the western world the odds are in your favour that you have a life with fulfillment, and happiness and health and everything else that makes life good. To ignore all of the good in the world and focus on the relentlessly negative is to offer a ridiculously unbalanced view of the world.
If your family are that scared that they live in fear minute by minute, I would suggest that says more about their perception of the world than the actual reality of the threat of living.
You paint an unrelentingly dismal view of humankind and this unbalanced view is offensive and simply wrong. And it is this worldview that informs much of the nonsense spouted by JWs and the other cults of the world - selling heaven on earth tomorrow (something there is no evidence at all for) in return for genuflection and obedience today. I view that as dishonest and disrespectful, myself.
There are 6.5 billion people in the world, around 70 million in the UK - and if you are someone living in the western world the odds are in your favour that you have a life with fulfillment, and happiness and health and everything else that makes life good. To ignore all of the good in the world and focus on the relentlessly negative is to offer a ridiculously unbalanced view of the world.
If your family are that scared that they live in fear minute by minute, I would suggest that says more about their perception of the world than the actual reality of the threat of living.
You paint an unrelentingly dismal view of humankind and this unbalanced view is offensive and simply wrong. And it is this worldview that informs much of the nonsense spouted by JWs and the other cults of the world - selling heaven on earth tomorrow (something there is no evidence at all for) in return for genuflection and obedience today. I view that as dishonest and disrespectful, myself.
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