Believers: Is there anything in the Bible/Koran that you don't believe...

[naomi24]

.... and if so, what is it?

[flip_flop]

oh I'm looking forward to the answers to this question - I'd imagine it must be too much of a paradox for them.

It must be like trying to imagine if there was nothing. Just nothing. It makes your head hurt after a while.

[Old_Geezer]

That first bit on page 1 which states, "All characters appearing in this work are fictitious. Any resemblance to real persons, living or dead, is purely coincidental". Although they tend to leave that bit out of recent editions.

[jno]

"No Canaanites were hurt in the making of this book", OG?

[anneasquith]

a clever OP naomi, but maybe a bit of a trap to try to prove us (believers) are silly to have faith :)

[Kiki-frog]

Not a 'believer' (i.e. not Jewish, Christian or Muslim), but my Christian friends accept Genesis and Exodus as mostly mythology with symbolic meaning, with some basis in historical fact. So whether you would define that as 'not believing' is open to debate, I guess. 'Not taking literally' would probably be a better way of phrasing it.

[naomi24]

Anne, what a suspicious mind you have. I didn't consider the question clever and I certainly didn't set it as a trap. I simply wondered which bits of the books (since they both contain contradictions and inaccuraces) believers choose not to believe.

[argorstran]

Yes , there is loads in the bible that I don't believe , but it doesn't impact on my belief in God because the bible was written by human beings , not God .
I'll try and elaborate on that:
I believe in God the creator of life . Living things can think , evolve , develop , change , grow and are free to choose what to believe - that is the whole point of life - otherwise God might just as well have created , say , a stone .
Some human beings have chosen to create political structures to worship this God - we call them religions , some religions call God by a different name (Allah , YHWH ) ,but the purpose of the political structure is the same , to worship God . These religions have their various rules , codes and tenets which their believers choose to follow . These codes are written by human beings and human beings are not infallible . The Bible is a collection of historical facts , historical legends and sayings , all put together by human beings - hence there are many things in there which I don't (as well as other things which I do) believe .
I believe in God but I choose not to commit myself to any religion . God and Religion are not the same thing . Having said that I do not dismiss the religions , or people who follow them , and I think the bible is a fascinating document . (I don't have any experience of the Koran ) .
I'm sure that not everybody will agree with my view but there's my answer .

[modeller]

argestran # Living things can think , evolve , develop , change , grow and are free to choose what to believe - #
Now that's an interesting statement as it encompasses bacteria , viruses , creepy crawlies of all shapes and sizes as well as all plant life. I expect that's why many people talk to their tomatoes.

[jomifl]

Even 'god created' stones are free to choose what they believe.....and perhaps they choose to believe nothing (how would we know)which probably indicates that they are more intelligent than some humans.

[naomi24]

argorstran, thank you so much for your honesty. Do you consider the God you believe in to be the God of the organised Abrahamic religions?

[keyplus90]

I believe in all of the Quran and do not believe that there are any contradiction in it as you have claimed. Obviously there are few things that are quoted out of context or are talked about without a proper knowledge. But then no one can do anything about that.

[argorstran]

Naomi yes I believe it is the same God that I and the organised Abrahamic religions believe in - but the point about the organised Abrahamic religions is that these organisations /religions and their rules were devised by human beings . I think we both believe in God the creator of life .
Modeller the bacteria , viruses , creepy -crawlies etc can all evolve , develop and adapt to their environments and reproduce . That's the difference between them and a stone .

[naomi24]

argorstran, you're absolutely right to say that these religions have been devised by human beings - which is why I'm surprised that you believe in the same God - but thanks again for your honest answer. On these pages an honest answer from a believer is very refreshing - and very welcome.

Keyplus, as far as I’m aware the Koran hasn't been quoted out of context. You don’t like the truth.

[birdie1971]

Keyplus - “... I believe in all of the Quran and do not believe that there are any contradiction in it as you have claimed...”

Not a single one Keyplus? Not one contradiction within the entire Koran? How about this one on the matter of whether or not Allah will forgive anyone for anything...

Yes - “... Say, "O My servants who have transgressed against themselves [by sinning], do not despair of the mercy of Allah . Indeed, Allah forgives all sins. Indeed, it is He who is the Forgiving, the Merciful” [39:53] (http://quran.com/39/53)

No - “... Indeed, those who disbelieve and commit wrong [or injustice] - never will Allah forgive them, nor will He guide them to a path” [4:168] (http://quran.com/4/168)


Or how about this one on the matter of how many angels fought with Muhammad?

Was it 3000? - “[Remember] when you said to the believers, "Is it not sufficient for you that your Lord should reinforce you with three thousand angels sent down?” [3:124] (http://quran.com/3/124)

Or was it less? - “[Remember] when you asked help of your Lord, and He answered you, "Indeed, I will reinforce you with a thousand from the angels, following one another." [8:9] (http://quran.com/8/9)


There are, of course, many, many more. You no doubt place the above quotes in the category of having been 'taken out of context'. This is the stock answer of all believers of all faiths who fail to address the issue of scriptural error. However, the fact is that the errors are there and to deny them is a form of self delusion. That you chose to ignore the many contradictions and inconsistencies in the Koran and that a great many Islamic 'scholars' are quick to defend their holy scriptures from any such criticism rather than actually addressing the fact that errors exist says far more about them and you than it does about the apparent inerrancy of the Koran.

[jomifl]

Birdie, you suffer from the disadvantage of not having 'proper knowledge'. I'm sure that keyplus could put you right if you met up with him and had a friendly chat. :-)

[modeller]

argorstran
You said # Living things can think , evolve , develop , change , grow and are free to choose what to believe - #

Your answer omits # are free to choose what to believe -#
which are the key words. Your words living things must include all animals and plants # are free to choose what to believe -# .

[keyplus90]

Modeller is right. I do have answers and explanations to the birdie's claims. But birdie himselfs does not deserve any response (not atleast from me).

[RATTER15]

^^^ a typical get out!!

[flip_flop]

Because contrary to his assertion, I suspect he doesn't have answers and explanations, hence the refusal to rebut birdie.

[Duncer]

This is interesting........