What makes atheists think their wiser than everyone else?

[sith123]

prompted by an earlier question.

[naomi24]

It's not what I believe. It's what you're supposed to believe.

[NOX]

To answer the initial question Sith- I don't think the majority of Atheists do think they are 'wiser' any more than I think the majority of religious people (of any religion) think they are either. Clearly theist or atheist, each person believes they have made the correct choice of belief given the available information that they have, and in that sense then each may try to convince or convert the other, but that's a different and single matter altogether and doesn't apply to general 'wisdom'. I think the subject of arrogance which someone touched upon is very relevant and equally applies to both those with religious beliefs and those without, but that is all down to personality of the individual rather than belief. I don't seek to make anyone believe what I do or don't, but there will always be people of all persuasions who will and who will mock and deride those who refuse to conform to their ideas.When pressed atheists rely on science and logic a lot which certainly doesn't answer everything and religious folk on 'the word' of some or other holy figure (which equally doesn't either) so essentially we're all at an interesting impasse and I imagine will continue to be so. All we can hope for is that we all respect one another enough not to get nasty if anyone disagrees with us, but historically this is unlikely on a thread like this.

[jomifl]

Nox, 'atheists rely on science and logic a lot which certainly doesn't answer everything' does it not? well perhaps not yet but it is doing better than anything else that has been tried.

[jomifl]

Sith, you may not realise it but you are probably not a muslim, you are in fact probably a mormon, since the mormons have for a long time been secretly converting all non mormons to mormonism. The clever bit is that they don't tell you. 'softly softly catchee monkey'

[NOX]

Jom- of course science and logic doesn't answer everything, I can't believe you seriously think it does (or 'will' rather). What a dull life you must lead if you can seriously rationalize everything that's ever happened.

[jomifl]

Nox, you are putting words into my mouth and talking cr@p

[NOX]

Charming...and you are a perfect example of the 'arrogance ' mentioned earlier. Get off your high horse before you fall off, and I don't need to talk c74p you manage that all by yourself.

[jomifl]

Nox, do you ever read your own posts? my 'charming' post was a response to your previous one which I thought unnecessarily insulting. To put words into another persons mouth then insult them for those words is a form of intellectual dishonesty that is unacceptable.

[NOX]

I put no words into your mouth whatsoever Jomifl, and I am certainly not guilty of any form of intellectual dishonesty. You said:-

''Nox, 'atheists rely on science and logic a lot which certainly doesn't answer everything' does it not?''

Your use of the words ' does it not?' clearly implies that you think it does and on that basis I posted my perfectly appropriate reply.
Perhaps it's you who needs to re-read your posts and see exactly how rude, inflammatory and inaccurate they are before you choose to go off half cocked, but then it's almost more amusing that you shot yourself in the foot with your silly, angry, pompous response, so carry on if you like, just a pity no-one can debate sensibly on religion on here anymore without someone like you hysterically claiming that 'words have been put into their mouths'. That's all certain people on this section ever seem to say if people don't agree with them, and it shows pitifully bad debating skills.

[jomifl]

Nox, calm down and accept a little of what you dish out for a change.

[NOX]

...sorry don't know who you are katie (yet)- and I always play as nicely as the people who are playing with me, as I'm sure you'll come to learn.
Jomifl- I have never had to fabricate that someone has 'put words into my mouth' to try to win an argument- so it's safe to say I really don't have to accept anything from you since it's grossly inaccurate- and I'm perfectly calm, just quite amused, in fact even more so now I've noticed something.

[naomi24]

//Science and logic certainly doesn't answer everything, I also agree. WELL PERHAPS NOT YET anyway, but it is doing better than anything else that has been tried. //

I agree Katie. If God, aka Allah, wants to compete he’s going to have to write a couple of sequels.

[grasscarp]

I don't think atheists think they are wiser. I think they are more ready to argue as secretly they want either to hear from others they are right. Believers hang back in the debate 1/ as they tend to get jumped on and ridiculed and 2/ they have no reason to enter the debate as their beliefs are deep rooted and they do not feel the need to question or defend them. I am a 1 and 2 and would no sooner debate here than jump into a river of crocodiles. I tend to think that most debate is pointless as those with strong beliefs will stay the same, and people without any beliefs will not even be interested enough to read the posts.

[naomi24]

Grasscarp, //I think they are more ready to argue as secretly they want either to hear from others they are right. //

That is the usual error the religious make. They assume that atheists possess a similar mindset to themselves, which amounts to a need for reinforcement of their beliefs – and it isn’t accurate at all. I harbour 'suspicions' - I won't call them 'beliefs' - that, to hazard a guess, I'd say practically every atheist on this website would disagree with. Nevertheless, I am happy to talk about them - regardless of who agrees with me or who doesn't. In fact, on more than one occasion, several atheists here, for whom I have the greatest respect, have temporarily fallen out with me because of my 'suspicions'. In my experience, unlike the religious, atheists do not 'back' each other for the sake of it. Their arguments stand on their own merits.

[grasscarp]

Naomi, what I don't understand is the fervour of those who claim to not believe in God. if you don't believe then why the interest in a religion and spirituality thread. Surely you would ignore the subject as something that you have decided is irrelevant to you? It seems the those who reject religion dominate all debates here and look to ridicule anyone who have beliefs that do not have any "scientific proof". We are all on the same earth and 50 years on from now will know who was right. Debate now is interesting but nothing more as long as we live.

[naomi24]

Grasscarp, I have not decided that religion is irrelevant to me - because it isn't. It has an appalling effect on this world - and the people I share this world with - and that, I consider, is relevant to me.

I'm going to bed now, but if you want to pick this up tomorrow, I'll be happy to join you.

Night.

[grasscarp]

Me too Naomi. Goodnight.

[birdie1971]

Sith - “... You probably believe people are born with no religion, we believe people are born as muslim. that may sound like a joke to you, but i could say the same about what you believe...”.

It sounds like a joke to me because that is precisely what it is (and it's not a particularly good joke either). A baby is no more a muslim than it is a conservative or a racist. These are learned beliefs and no one is born with them. The fact that you honestly think that way suggests that you know even less about reason and rationality than I have previously given you credit for.

If you're right, why does the concept and reality of apostasy even exist?

I could continue but your argument and position on this is simply too absurd to warrant further comment.

[sith123]

Nox, trust me, if you mention anything which jom does not agree with its apparently bull****. But to be honest we all know whose talking the real Bull**** here ;)