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Sexual Discrimination
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Which religion has the worst record for sexual discrimination?
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Sith - “... this is really driving me nuts is how ignorant you are when we keep telling you, islam is not sexist, some muslims are... there are some sexist atheists, christians, hindus etc...”
No one is denying that there are sexist people from every religion and those with no faith. That is not in dispute. The problem is that the religion of Islam institutionalises and sanctions that discrimination in the ways I mentioned in my above post. It is a fact that the countries where women have the fewest rights are those run on Islamic principals.
I read your link – I found it very interesting. In the article, Ms Ashraf states, “... Women are considered no less than men in aspects of religion and are not denigrated anywhere in the Quran...”. Why does she qualify her statement by the words, “... in aspects of religion...”? Why didn't she just say, “Women are considered no less than men and are not denigrated anywhere in the Quran.”? Because she already knows that the latter is simply not true. It is an irrefutable fact that the Koran specifically states, “... [2:282] And bring to witness two witnesses from among your men. And if there are not two men [available], then a man and two women from those whom you accept as witnesses - so that if one of the women errs, then the other can remind her [Sahih International version]”. From this verse, it is clear that the evidence from a woman is worth half that of a man.
If that isn't denigrating women then I don't know what is. There are many, many other such verses but I have neither the time nor the inclination go into all the misogynistic quotations from the Koran and the Hadiths. Ms Ashraf paints a lovely picture of Islam as being a religion of equality and tolerance. The unpleasant reality is that it simply isn't – both history and modern day events bear witness to that fact.
No one is denying that there are sexist people from every religion and those with no faith. That is not in dispute. The problem is that the religion of Islam institutionalises and sanctions that discrimination in the ways I mentioned in my above post. It is a fact that the countries where women have the fewest rights are those run on Islamic principals.
I read your link – I found it very interesting. In the article, Ms Ashraf states, “... Women are considered no less than men in aspects of religion and are not denigrated anywhere in the Quran...”. Why does she qualify her statement by the words, “... in aspects of religion...”? Why didn't she just say, “Women are considered no less than men and are not denigrated anywhere in the Quran.”? Because she already knows that the latter is simply not true. It is an irrefutable fact that the Koran specifically states, “... [2:282] And bring to witness two witnesses from among your men. And if there are not two men [available], then a man and two women from those whom you accept as witnesses - so that if one of the women errs, then the other can remind her [Sahih International version]”. From this verse, it is clear that the evidence from a woman is worth half that of a man.
If that isn't denigrating women then I don't know what is. There are many, many other such verses but I have neither the time nor the inclination go into all the misogynistic quotations from the Koran and the Hadiths. Ms Ashraf paints a lovely picture of Islam as being a religion of equality and tolerance. The unpleasant reality is that it simply isn't – both history and modern day events bear witness to that fact.
keyplus...i see what youre talking about :)
birdie, i think what he is saying is rational, because if you met in a debate you would have less time to think of your answers and get links or "makes stuff up" as you would both be face to face, not behind a computer screen. so yes, i have to say, i agree with keyplus.
birdie, i think what he is saying is rational, because if you met in a debate you would have less time to think of your answers and get links or "makes stuff up" as you would both be face to face, not behind a computer screen. so yes, i have to say, i agree with keyplus.
Keyplus, why do you keep asking Birdie to meet you face to face? What do you want to say to him that you can’t say here? I’ve said it before, but I’ll say it again – an invitation like that from a complete stranger is creepy!
Sith and Keyplus, all you two have done on this thread is attempt to defend the indefensible. Why don’t you answer Father Ted’s question? Which religion do you think has the worst record for sexual discrimination?
Sith and Keyplus, all you two have done on this thread is attempt to defend the indefensible. Why don’t you answer Father Ted’s question? Which religion do you think has the worst record for sexual discrimination?
Naomi - why don't you and birdie ask all of those western women who are converting to Islam that why the hell are they doing so? Why are they walking into a religion that has no respect for women. Why don't you start with Yevone Ridley?
Have I said that all before? So many times
Birdie - I am just ignoring you for very well known reasons spanning over 5 years.
Have I said that all before? So many times
Birdie - I am just ignoring you for very well known reasons spanning over 5 years.
I would like to know why the Muslims are not brave enough to just say what there religion says instead of trying to be defensive.
Why can't you say what your religion says which in its basic is woman is 2nd class, woman is a chattel, woman has no opinion better than any man, woman is a sex object that I am so scared of liking another man that she must be covered and subjugated.
Tell me why are you not brave enough to defend this?
Why can't you say what your religion says which in its basic is woman is 2nd class, woman is a chattel, woman has no opinion better than any man, woman is a sex object that I am so scared of liking another man that she must be covered and subjugated.
Tell me why are you not brave enough to defend this?
This is in today's DM.......
Even if it is only partly true,it is shocking enough.
http://www.dailymail....g-British-Asians.html
Even if it is only partly true,it is shocking enough.
http://www.dailymail....g-British-Asians.html
Honour has nothing to do with it, it is all about pride and vanity and vengeance. Because islam places the men at the head of the family they are forced to lose face when their womenfolk 'misbehave' as they are seen to be socially deficient. If the women had liberty and free will this would not happen.
Thankyou all for your replies, there seems to be a consensus that Islam and Christianity don't have much to be proud of but there surely must be lot of religions which have done even more appalling things and they haven't yet been mentioned. I am surprised that the Islamic contributors haven't come up with any religions worse than themselves, is it because there aren't any or because they are ignorant of other religions and their practises? I can't decide on a best answer yet.
Keyplus, I’ve told you before. Most women who convert to Islam do so because they marry Muslims. If you and Sith weren’t Muslim, your wives wouldn’t have converted to Islam.
And you’re not ignoring Birdie – you’re inviting him to meet you in person – again!
Are you going to answer the original question - or are you going to continue to avoid it?
Jack, your link is shocking - but it doesn't surprise me.
And you’re not ignoring Birdie – you’re inviting him to meet you in person – again!
Are you going to answer the original question - or are you going to continue to avoid it?
Jack, your link is shocking - but it doesn't surprise me.
Sith - “... birdie, i think what he [Keyplus] is saying is rational, because if you met in a debate you would have less time to think of your answers and get links or "makes stuff up"...”
Sorry to contradict you but I've never 'made stuff up' when debating Islam. Keyplus loves to repeat this accusation again and again because he cannot answer any of the legitimate criticisms that I and others present to him. Have you noticed how he never really answers any questions? His modus operandi when presented with evidence of Islamic unpleasantness is to either openly criticise the poster (by calling them stupid / ill-informed / mentally ill) or to fire off a volley of shots that criticise western culture and/or other religions. He seems to have a scorched-earth policy with regards to theological discussions (see his post [15:50 Mon 19th Mar 2012] in which he answers nothing and simply asks multiple questions to which there are no real answers).
You now seem to be adopting the same, tired old line. Rather than accusing me of making things up, why don't you write a response to my post (01:18 Mon 19th Mar 2012) in which I quote the Koran directly with regards to the strength of evidence given by a woman?
You also seem to think that it's completely rational and normal for a member of Answer Bank to want to meet another member in person. I strongly suspect that if the boot was on the other foot, you'd find it quite unsettling if someone you had had numerous (often heated) arguments with on-line suddenly wanted to meet you in person for a 'debate'.
Sorry to contradict you but I've never 'made stuff up' when debating Islam. Keyplus loves to repeat this accusation again and again because he cannot answer any of the legitimate criticisms that I and others present to him. Have you noticed how he never really answers any questions? His modus operandi when presented with evidence of Islamic unpleasantness is to either openly criticise the poster (by calling them stupid / ill-informed / mentally ill) or to fire off a volley of shots that criticise western culture and/or other religions. He seems to have a scorched-earth policy with regards to theological discussions (see his post [15:50 Mon 19th Mar 2012] in which he answers nothing and simply asks multiple questions to which there are no real answers).
You now seem to be adopting the same, tired old line. Rather than accusing me of making things up, why don't you write a response to my post (01:18 Mon 19th Mar 2012) in which I quote the Koran directly with regards to the strength of evidence given by a woman?
You also seem to think that it's completely rational and normal for a member of Answer Bank to want to meet another member in person. I strongly suspect that if the boot was on the other foot, you'd find it quite unsettling if someone you had had numerous (often heated) arguments with on-line suddenly wanted to meet you in person for a 'debate'.
Keyplus - “... Birdie - I am just ignoring you for very well known reasons spanning over 5 years...”
No you're not. You're still actively attempting to make personal contact with me. What you are doing is ignoring rational arguments about Islam because you are incapable of countering those arguments.
Feel free to ignore this post.
No you're not. You're still actively attempting to make personal contact with me. What you are doing is ignoring rational arguments about Islam because you are incapable of countering those arguments.
Feel free to ignore this post.
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